The graphics are good, the story is good, the characters are great, but the fighting is utter crap. I really don't understand what people see in Tekken. This isn't a Tekken sucks thread, this is a "What do other people see in Tekken that I don't" thread. Is the fighting actually good and I and everyone I know who plays it just playing it wrong? I'm really confused here how a franchise this successful can go on with such horrendous gameplay. What I refer to is that the game consists of nothing more than either excecuting a 9-step combo that takes away the 75% of the the opponents life, or getting in one hit that puts them in the air and juggling them until they die. Or my favorite, knock them on the ground and do 3 sweeps before they can get up. Perhaps it's just that I'm not that good and I don't know how to avoid this stuff, but even watching the good players fight that seems to be what the game boils down to. One player gets lucky and the other player spends the next 10 seconds helpless as most of his/her life is drained without a damn thing he/she can do about it. I really don't get it. I look at a game like Super Smash Brothers (64, melee is decent and really cool but 64 is a much better fighting experience) where it is virtually impossible to button mash effectively and compare it to a match of Tekken. In smash, the button masher gets a few lucky hits in with Yoshi and you go up about 15-25%. That's nothing, especially if you consider the average match has about 5 lives (or even better is timed). Then I look at tekken where the good, experience player comes rushing in with law and gets smashed by a two handed pincer move by the panda bear, taking 75% of his life. What the crap is that? But you know what, that doesn't matter because when law gets up, he executes a chain that keeps the panda in the air while he takes away 75% of the panda's life and finishes off the extra 25% while the panda is on the ground. To be fair, I haven't played or seen Tekken in over a year, so maybe my view of the game has been skewed and exaggerated by time, but even after owning and beating Tekken Tag Tournment several times years ago, I walked away with the impression that this was a really jouvenile fighter. In fact, beating the game involved little more than taking Alex or Roger and getting lucky with that big punch they do. And still, I hear Tekken 4 is good and Tekken 5 is supposed to be amazing, but looking at trailers it doesn't look like they've changed much in the way of combat, which is what really matters in a fighter. It seems like the same power jabs that take 30% of your life still exist, that the never ending combos that end the match 2 seconds in are still there, that the juggling (what I consider the worst thing you can find in a fighting game) still exists. I truly do not understand what has allowed this series to go on like this. My friends at OSU play the game religiously. They're good, mind you, but I can beat them every now and then as long as I time my attacks properly to disrupt their rushes and get in a power hit or two. Beyond that I really don't know what I'm doing. To me a fighting game is a measure of skill. If you get your ass handed to you, you train, you practice, you get better. You study what's lacking in your fighting style, decernable patterns, particular moves that offer poor damage output compared to associated downtime. It is not: Rush in Get kicked once Fly back Stand up Rinse Repeat Crap like that just bores me. So I emplore you, the average gamedev reader, and you, the Tekken master who is red in the face by now from reading this. What am I missing? Where is the skill beyond memorizing combos and timing your attacks so your opponent never lands? What am I missing? What is it that I don't see that everyone else sees in this very successful franchise? And again, please don't take this as a "Tekken sucks" thread. Honestly I don't mean it to be. Rather, I want to understand what people actually find fun about the game. I mean, we're game creators, right? We should pick crap like this apart and say "what makes it fun?" and then attempt to take those elements farther and include them in more games. So help me do that with Tekken. Help me understand Tekken. Help me feel Tekken. Help me love Tekken. And then once that's done we can move on to Halo :P.

Good story? The story is barely there at all, it barely makes more sense than Quake 3's story.

As for the fighting, I guess it's just well balanced and altogether pretty varied. You see a lot of different fighting styles and a lot of interesting stuff. A character might have a devastating 10 hit combo, but the entire thing might hit only high/mid, and be blocked easily as a result, leaving him open for a major counter attack. I'll admit though, that button mashing is worryingly effective in Tekken.

What's this have to do with programming?

Now, I'm not exactly a good fighter player either. I generally hate the games.

But, from what I understand of the fantastically good players, it's not that one player is lucky and the other is helpless for 10 seconds, it's that the other player is unlucky/unskilled.

Being able to do those juggles and maximize the damage when you actually catch your opponent is only one step in the game. Knowing the timings of things, so that you can properly block and counter, or anticipate the coming move is the next it seems. The really great players I've seen/heard will have that timing down to the point where they can get in far more of those initial hits that lead to juggling or sweeps, simply because they can shave a few milliseconds off their block or movement to be "quicker".<br><br>Personally, I don't think fighters are fun, or a judge of skill until you reach the very highest ranks.

The goal of this game is fun.
im not one who like this game (my friends does. yes im not good in it either :P) but if you will look in it, you'll see something like 1000 fighting tricks (or codes or whatever its called).
i dont believe that someone know to do all these tricks, there are hard tricks, but sometimes you can try them and learn, and when you know it and use it in your fights, it become more intersting and fun.

If you want to like Tekken, then try to have fun with it (in winning your friends or the ai bots) and not to think on how it looks.
thats my opinion.
isn't this topic should be in Game Design forum?

pex.

Quote: Original post by coderx75
What's this have to do with programming?

Ahh crap, I'm sorry. I meant to hit general discussion. I'm kind of sick, I'll blame it on the medicine.

Can a mod please move this? Thanks.

Moved to Game Design.

I'm not a huge fan of fighters, I can see what you're getting at but I think the appeal is that it's just a fast paced, simple fighter - pure fun, pick up and play.

If you want something more in-depth then I think you're looking at the wrong game.