Java Or C# easier for a beginner?

It''s pretty much the same. C# has some added expressivity over Java, meaning it''s also slightly harder to learn. But the difference isn''t very big.
If you''re going to choose between C# and Java, don''t let "difficulty" be the deciding argument.

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Faith. n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. -- Ambrose Bierce

Java. Java is SO cut in features - C# adds some functionality back :-)


Regards

Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)

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Original post by Stranger
dont answer that C# is Microsoft so go for Java.I want your unbiased opinion if possible.

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Original post by thona
Java. Java is SO cut in features - C# adds some functionality back :-)
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)

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Ahaha

It is true - i you search for a SIMPLE language to begin with, then basically you dont want to be bothered with useless things such as unsigned variables, struct vs. class differences (custom value types), operator overloading.


For a programmer, C# is WAY better. For learning, java is easier - you are not bothered at all with usefull advanced features :-)


Regards

Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)

Which is more suitable for 3d?

I think you''ve got a few things going on here and you''re maybe asking the wrong questions.

Why have you decided upon java and c#?

What I think you''re really saying is ''I want to do 3d programming. I''m also a beginner. I need a language that I can easily learn and which can be used for 3d''

There are many languages that can be used with the OpenGL API for 3d programming, C,C++,java,python, you name it really.

If you want to use DirectX there are C, C++, C#, Visual Basic ways of using it. There are probably more. In fact if you can use it in C you can probably use all the above java, python etc.

There are 3d apis in java as well. And others, SDL, which I don''t know about. Research what you want to do and how complicated you want to be.

So the questions are:
What 3d API do you want to use, and why? Do you want to build a whole big program or just some cool little things?

If you want to do little things, how about considering a scripting language like python, which is easy to learn, or ruby which is nice, and using OpenGL?

Finally I would say that 3d programming isn''t really a beginners subject (although, of course, you do have to begin somewhere (c: )

all the best

pete

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Original post by thona
It is true - i you search for a SIMPLE language to begin with, then basically you dont want to be bothered with useless things such as unsigned variables, struct vs. class differences (custom value types), operator overloading.

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That depends on how you contort the meaning of "simple" to suit your purposes. If a beginner wants to write a program which requires a feature that the language does not support, then that feature must be emulated. It is often non-trivial to emulate language features, hence I don't believe for a second that omission of features necessarily makes a language either "more simple" or "easier".

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For a programmer, C# is WAY better.

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For similar reasons as I've just explained, I find this statement to be very silly.

[edited by - SabreMan on October 25, 2002 6:33:31 AM]

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Original post by petewood
If you want to do little things, how about considering a scripting language like python, which is easy to learn, or ruby which is nice, and using OpenGL?

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I''d further this statement and say that Ruby and Python can be used for more than just little things. Certainly, I''ve found that Python''s features scale-up well when building fairly large applications. When it comes to wanting to do things Python just doesn''t do well, it is quite simple to write Python extensions in C++ that do just what you want.

In fact, I''ll go even further and claim that using C++ as an implementation language right off-the-bat for many applications (yes, that does include games) violates the first and second rules of premature optimisation.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
whearas java compilers, well I don''t know....

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Then stay the funk out of this thread.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
I hear C# compilers generate an exe, whearas java compilers, well I don''t know....

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I think they actually make a bunch of .class files and then you can do this command line thing...

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but it isn''t something obvious. So go with C#, you will have an easier time.

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Thanks for a highly informative and instructive post. Or something.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
um excuse me but if you thought it through you would realize that my post was by far the most useful.

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How it is useful to know that you are too learning-impaired to be able to compile and run a basic Java program?

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Stranger''s first goal should be to get a very simple program up and running, preferably not from within the IDE (to give you the feel that you are actually making a program, not just using one). I think java isn''t as user-friendly as it could be in this regard.

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[1] javac HelloWorld.java
[2] java HelloWorld 

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
Back when I was using java I would always have to run everything from within CodeWarrior. I would search online and get stuff about how you have to set your class path and blah blah blah

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All this shows is that you''re over-reliant on an IDE and incapable of properly finding/following instructions.

Java has been out many years, and regardless of what you may thing as regards performance, language features etc. the more important fact here is that there are many more resources avalible (in book or web form) for Java, many specifically targeted at newbies. The step by step tutorials at Sun''s site are particularly good for newbies because it explicitly takes you though all the important details and ''gotchas'' that the average newcommer will hit.

I''m going to risk seeming like a complete hopeless newbie, but what exactly are the rules of premature optimization?

I know it''s bad, and it''s bitten me on more then one occasion, I just want specifics.

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Original post by daerid
what exactly are the rules of premature optimization?

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<g>

Rules of Optimization:
Rule 1: Don''t do it.
Rule 2 (for experts only): Don''t do it yet.
Rule 3: Only do it when you''ve profiled.

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Original post by SabreMan
In fact, I''ll go even further and claim that using C++ as an implementation language right off-the-bat for many applications (yes, that does include games) violates the first and second rules of premature optimisation.

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I like that one . Can I quote you?

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Faith. n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. -- Ambrose Bierce

If you are looking for something simple, or are more concerned with writing games, why not use a language built for games such as BlitzBasic.

I''m looking into Blitz right now and for what I can see it looks completely awesome. I''ve seen demos in a 100 or so lines of code that would be thousands of lines of C++ code.

You should really check it out at www.blitzbasic.com. As soon as I have the cash I''ll be buying a copy.

borngamer

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Original post by Arild Fines
I like that one . Can I quote you?

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Anything I say on these forums is open to being quoted. In other words: "be my guest".