characters to fall in love with

Hi,

Ok she has already a gorgeous outlook, but the personality and the outlook have to be linked.

For example:
If she is a bit shy, but really charming, it would be good if she had some teddy bear eyes and a sweat smile.
A little bit of naivity would maybe be good. (naive, but intelligent!)

It is important to know for what you''ll need this character, then I could help you more.

Well, I am a bit surprised by your question SnS. I mean, after all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so why would it be any different when it comes to personality ?

Are you asking us what kind of personality would please everybody, or are you asking what *we* like ? Because I cant see dozens of approach to your question.
Either you try to create some sort of person that can appeal to many people in a slight way (in which case I would assume people wouldnt fall in love, but rather have a general feeling of attraction), or you try to aim for one particular type of person you wanna please and create an appropriately custom character that will please this target audience everytime.
For instance, when Disney did A Bug's Life, they made extensive surveys of what kids like and dislike about insects, so that the characters they create would be lovable, or scary. Hence the blueish big eyed ants... (and then people talk about big eyes manga characters... hypocrites !)

I cant help but refer you *yet again* to hentai games
Look at something like True Love (and a few others, like Season of Sakura), where precisely the player is given the choice to pursue whichever type of girl he prefers (and even a catwoman, apparently, but I never found that one).
You get the bossy teachers pet that isnt such a nerd after all, the artistic girl with a weak health, the sportsy tomboy, the religious one, the best friend that you never saw as anything else than a friend up to now, the girl you love with blind faith just because she looks so fascinating but her personality is crap, etc. (I might forget a few, but you get the idea)
So many stereotypes to play with

So again, you gonna have a tought time to get one answer on that one. Maybe if you tell us what target audience you want ?

Personaly, I have fairly open taste.
Girls with a bit of attitude are interesting, both for the challenge in handling them (it sounds a bit bad, I guess) but also for the reward of seeing the calm side of them when you manage to get past the firewall (think of taming a wild horse, for a comparison. And I apologise if it sounds sexist).
On the other hand, I would love someone that I can rely on, someone that would comfort me, someone that complements me.

In the end, you are looking at someone (and I am trying to generalise, here) that can combine the aspects of a lover (because sex *is* important in a relationship, not just a detail), a mother (as in your mum. someone that brings you comfort, safety, nurturing), and a friend (someone you can talk to, someone with similar interests, concerns, someone like minded). How much each aspect is important to you depends on your personal background.
Also you could be looking either at someone totally like yourself, or totally complementary (people would generally say opposed, but I dont think this is correct).
Typically, if you lacked the affection of your mum as a child, you'll look for the mothering/nurturing aspect much more.
Of course, that's just my little theory (well, I didnt invent Oedipus complex ! ) so I am still trying to understand it myself...

now, how all that is relevant to you is anyone's guess But you never know...

---

Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

[edited by - ahw on November 18, 2002 12:06:39 PM]

GPO18- well I''m not trying to create a particular character, I''m trying to see what types of personalities are regarded as attractive. I figured that by asking the forum members to each give a specific example of what was attractive to them, then viewing everyone''s responses together would give me a good selection of attractive types. I''m also particularly interested in the difference between which types make attractive female characters and which types make attractive male characters because I suspect there''s going to be at least 30% difference between these.

ahw - I did play True Love (and I got the cat-girl! ), but the girls in that game are not real deeply characterized because they each get so little dialogue. Same problem with looking at poll data for the relative popularity of the various Sailor Moon girls. I don''t know why it is, but it seems that the more character-depth a piece of fiction has, the fewer female characters it has. Maybe because most character-based writing is written by women, while most plot-based writing is written by men? I really don''t know. It does seem that among male creators of anime they tend not to create romantic relationships among their characters at all.

I don''t think the analogy about the firewall and taming the horse is sexist, in point of fact I think exactly the same thing about guys. I don''t look for guys to be motherly though (do I? I don''t think so...?), so that''s an interesting difference.



But let me explain why I am posing this challenge. See, as a member of the harry potter fan community and several anime communities I have observed that certain character types are the romantic favorites of women fanwriters and it doesn''t really matter what appearance the character type gets incarnated with in a particular fandom. And some character types are liked by a much larger percentage of the audience, while certain other charcter types are liked more fanatically than others. I just finished reading a book on testosterone and seratonin''s influence on personality and behavior, which in turn influences mate selection, and I''ve been thinking about how that applies to the popularity of various character personalities. But all of this knowledge really only pertains to male characters, and since I''d like to be able to create appealing female characters too I need to learn a paralell bunch of information about them.

So the question is, would a personality that made a male character attractive also make a female character attractive? Are there some character archetypes that this works for and some that it doesn''t? Are their particular character traits (jealousy? mothering instinct? charisma?) that are almost universally attractive among female characters because these are traits that males have evolved to look for in their mates? (Because these do seem to exist for male characters and their female audience.) The field of study that these theories come from is called evolutionary psychology btw.



So basically if I can get a bunch of guys to put forth their ideally attractive female characters, I should be able to extract the information I want. Which is why I asked my question here and not on one of the all-girl fangroups I belong to.

Big tits and a tight suit that shows off a really slick ass, lol, that''s what I like! Make her kind of serious yet...um...I dunno...wats a word...um...I guess caring for other people. Watch that show "Alias" and just copy the main character and you''ll know what I mean.

in the reverse sexism thread in the lounge two guys agree that ''confidant women are sexy''. Do you suppose this means more of an assertive confidance, or more of a dominant confidance?

I would say assertive confidence: it is great when a girl will tell you what she thinks and stand up for her opinions, but it is horrible when ANYONE forces their opinions over someone else.

Well, me again (and forgive the lengthy rambling, my dear reader, but this is one of the topics I love to philosophise about (if that's a word in English))

btw, I was saying motherly figure for guys, for girls of course it's the father figure you look for, in a more or less pronounced manner. And I have observed it in a few extreme cases, it's quite fascinating. IIRC the technical term is the Electra complex, for women.
But I still think the characteristics pretty much sum up the criteria to be looked for in a potential partner (lover mother friend, maybe daughter, too ?).

One thing I thought about is the intent of the relationship...
If I just wanted sex, I would probably consider the kind of women that I would usually stay clear of, for the challenge of the actual flirting most of the time, but once in a while, well, efforts pay
There is something about touching the forbidden fruit (I dont talk about someone involved with someone else in my case, but that would be an example), or taking some sort of risk : someone too young, or too old (compared to your age group that is) as in going with the younger sister of an ex (sweet), or going out with the mother of a friend (soon to be ex friend, I'd say); Someone with kids (well, single mothers are quite common here), or someone on the rebound, someone a bit instable, a lesbian (well, I did it, so it can be done... but I still cant *explain* it).
All these one off have something fundamentally wrong about them from the start (at least in a few of the cases, for me) but it's probably where their appeal lies, for me. Although they usually end up bringing more problem than anything... I guess it's a male thing ?

For a more serious relationship, well, confidence is a good start. Confidence in one's body for a start, is a good indication (for me) of the sexual potential (I dunno how to make that not sound like I am talking about cattle at the meat market, so you'll have to assume I am a nice guy in general, but we are trying to be scientists here )
There is something magical about a girl whose confidence in her body (as in feeling good about one's body, and liking to use for various recreational purposes) translates in the subtle way she moves *drools* I know I describe it as a physical trait, but it's directly related to the mentality of the person, and for me is an indication of the maturity (at least sexual) of the person.
Similarly, confidence in approaching others, being able to talk in a open manner without too much restraint nor too much overbearing is quite attractive.

I guess I look for balance, stability, sensuality (because it's not just a physical thing !). As an artist (well, in my way of approaching things anyway), I look for a Muse. Someone I can rely on, lean on, listen to. That woman in which I can find hope when all is lost, see that sparkle (I just dont know how to call it otherwise) when all is dark, someone I can use as an oasis in the ever expanding desert... you get the idea.
As a man, well, I look for someone with a bit more experience than me, because I am really getting bored of inexperienced girls who know even less than poor me (which surprises me every time, but hey, I guess it happens). Here I am talking about sex in particular, but life in general too.
As a child I look for the nurturing, cuddling, and all those little things it sometimes feel nice to revert to (but you cant spend you *whole life* like that, of course)

Mmmmmh, it's a bit hard to answer in a straight manner, I think.
Sometimes I think I look for my complementary. The Taurus for my Scorpio. But then again, sometimes I look for the Taurus for my own Taurus (my rising sun star sign...) So it's a bit of an ordeal.
I think I look for someone who had reached the balance that I crave to achieve Just to show me the way. But would that person be someone to fall in love with ?
Same problem for my Muse. One of the thing about a Muse (for me) is her innocence to oppose my growing cynicism. But with prolonged exposure, will I break the very thing I want ?

Tell you what, you tell me what kind of guy you want, and maybe I'll get a better idea of how to describe mine

---

Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

[edited by - ahw on November 19, 2002 10:27:09 AM]

Hi,

The personnality I appreciate most : sweet and friendly. To be a Japanese cute woman is a plus.

----
David Sporn AKA Sporniket

ahw - well, I'm not exactly sure how to state what I want either, but I'll give it a go.

Hmm... I know, here's a poem one of my characters wrote to one of my other characters, maybe it will explain well.

Tomo's Poem

Not only do I love your petals; also I adore your thorns
I frolic in your slightest smiles, I revel in your fleers and scorns
Nip me with your toothsome wit, nay, chew me over like a bone
I am taffy I enjoy it; do it right you’ll make me moan.

“I know some good games we could play!” said the cat.
“I know some new tricks!” said the Cat in the Hat.
“A lot of good tricks – I will show them to you.
Your mother will not mind at all if I do.”

I know every tantric sex trick, when to swallow, when to hum,
Where to touch and where to lick and how to do that thing with my tongue
But, my midnight angel lover, can you teach me how to Fall?
That’s the one trick I can’t master, I cannot manage it at all.

My heart is secretive and strange, it tells me not what it’s about
My heart is slippery and proud, but maybe you can tease it out
Give to me a golden collar; help me put it on my heart
Like a falcon tamed by fetter nature is improved by art

You walk in beauty like the night/Of cloudless climes and starry skies
And all that’s best of dark and bright/Are met in your aspect and your eyes,
So clothe yourself in my embrace and gaze at me with golden eyes
Framed by lashes of black lace the better me to mesmerize

I love a damsel overly distressed,
With teary eye and heaving breast;
By his battered heart, by his subjugated wings
My easy heart’s ensorcelled and impressed,
My soul compelled to genuflect and sing
Of the subtle beauty of broken things.

So let me make you pant and keen, let me hear your groans and sighs
Let me worship with my tongue your milk white flanks and creamy thighs
How do I love thee, let me count the ways: I love your lips, your moonlit tresses
Thy beauty commands me gaze at thee, thy scent commands my kisses

Let me sip your passion, my Pierian spring, I have none of my own;
Just a shallow draught to intoxicate my brain, then I'll build you a dream-drunken throne!
And all who hear should see it there, that sunny dome, those caves of ice
And all should cry beware beware! They drink the milk of Paradise!


Well, I'm not sure whether that was helpful. o_O Basically the romantic object of the poem is sarcastic and jaded from being lonely and neglected; he has a fiery, passionate temper (which I and the narrator of the poem do not); he is very eleoquent, tending to use words as weapons, which is a defense he developed because he is shy and never popular, and he wanted to protect himself from other people's insults. The object character is very intelligent, and proud of his intelligence and competence, but it's a fragile pride, with a lack of self-esteem because no one seems to really like him (until the narrator character shows up of course). The object character is also a natural sidekick who aches to give his loyalty to someone - this may or may not be the narrator character, because the narrator character is (like me) not a natural leader.

I'm not sure whether a relationship like this would work at all in real life, but in fiction it strikes me as very aesthetically pleasing. (shrug)

[edited by - sunandshadow on November 21, 2002 4:06:24 PM]

Sweet, kind, loving and innosent

Maby thats just me

But also (on another note) a bit fiesty, flirty(though not to much, otherwise its not so good), knows what she wants

...........hum........ this reminds me of a person i realy like.


Wonder why!!!

Play every final fintasy game since 7. The three basic archetypes are almost always represented. Well, the three archetypes that square picked as most important.

On a side note, can I ask why we neccessarily want to fall in love with the character? Wouldn''t it be more important for the characters to fall in love with the characters? Anyone with a sense of compassion would then extend themselves into the role, I.E., they would identify with the characters. In that respect the female character could be of any type, it''d just require the evolution of their personality to the point that the characters met on the same wavelength. Though admittedly thats a very hard thing to do.

Anyways, I''ll stop going around it, you wanted input, here''s my archetype:

Caring and Compasionate.
Moderately intelligent, moderately sophisticated.
Resourceful with good crisis management skills.
Modest. Not too shy, but enough to blush a bit at a compliment.
Good cook, or willing to learn.
And most important, INTERESTED IN ME.

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

Inmate 2993 - Why we want to create characters that people fall in love with:

1) People who have a crush on at least one of the characters in a game/story create the fanatic core of that game''s fans. These are the people who write fanfiction, and more importantly the people who buy related products and email publishers to demand sequels, that sort of thing. Some of these people will take their fannishness a little further and buy other creations by the voice actors, artists, and (the one that matters to us) writers who created their favorite character. Fanatical fans are good for your pocketbook.

2) Making someone fall in love is one of the most difficult manipulations a writer can do to their readers - pulling it off is like having the readers give you a medal for writing quality. Fanatical fans are good for your ego.

3) If your audience is in love with a character, they are more likely to learn moral lessons that character is involved in in the story. (Which I''m assuming that you as writers would like to teach people moral/political/etc. lessons, this may not apply to particular writers.) Fanatical fans are good for your agenda.

4) If you yourself are in love with the character, aren''t you more strongly motivated to write about them? If you are a fanatical fan, this is good for your muse.

Hmm, I'll try to explain the range of attractive male character archetypes that I keep stumbling across in fandom. I'll use examples from Harry Potter and anime because these are what I've spent the most time doing character analysis of, because it's easier to pick the archetypes out of juvenile writing.


General princliples of female attraction - according to books on evolutionary psychology, there are certain traits that will attract almost all women.

1. If the character is wounded in some way, either physically or emotionally, this will call on the woman's instinct to nurture and heal. The area of fanfic known as 'hurt/comfort' deals with this. Examples: Saionji from Revolutionary Girl Utena, Chichiri, Nuriko, Nakago, and Tomo from Fushigi Yuugi (which is practically a hurt/comfort series, athough it could use more of the comfort part), Harry Potter and Severus Snape from Harry Potter. (This character must have either a melancholy temperment, an angry temperment, or a smile-to-hide-the-tears temperment to convince the reader that they haven't gotten over their injury.)

2. Women can tell what a character's testosterone level is and will pick one which either matches of complements their own, depending on the woman's goals. A woman who is a natural leader will pick either a man who is a natural follower or a man who is as dominant as she is and won't let her manipulate him. A woman who is a natural follower will pick either a man who is a strong leader or a submissive man who won't try to dominate the woman. A woman who is neither a leader nor a follower may pick a man who is the same, but may also pick a dominant man or a submissive one. A more dominant man will defend his family and fight other men for resources for them, and a more submissive man will be more loyal to the wife, helpful with childcare, and be less likely to get killed while competing with other men. Mathematically, this results in characters at both extremes of the spectrum being more popular than those in the middle.

3. Egotism as aphrodesiac - arrogance is this odd trait that makes a disliked character easier to hate but a liked character loveable. I think it's like, not only is the character self-confidant, which is appealing to a lot of people, but their overweening pride becomes a tragic flaw - you have a character who's rich, powerful, handsome, etc. but instead of being boringly perfect, he's a spoiled arrogant SOB, whch is like a challange to women to 'see past all that' to 'the inner him' which they often imagine to be a 'sensitive soul'. Plus you have someone who acts arrogant as a defensive tactic, which takes us back to hurt/comfort. Examples: Touga from Revolutionary Girl Utena, Kuno from Ranma 1/2, Nakago from Fushigi Yuugi, Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter. It's interesting to note that these characters are all minor villains in their respective story worlds. My evolutionary psychology book also says that self-confidence is sexy because it means the character (who is the one who knows themself best, after all) sees themself as likely to be approved by others, which means that the character probably is worth approving of, i.e. a good candidate to be a father.

4. The Man who's Good With Children - ever notice how a guy who is taking care of a kid by himself is the target of all sorts of female eyes? Particularly if the women know that the child is not the guy's, but is his sibling or cousin? Women who like children (and not all of them do) look for men (and male characters of course) who like children too. Examples: Tamahome from Fushigi Yuugi (Probably Nuriko too, but he's never shown interacting with kids), Carrot Glace from Sorceror Hunters, Ryoga from Ranma 1/2, Remus Lupin from Harry Potter. (Except for Tamahome these characters each have some disability that gets in the way of them becoming fathers, which increases their character pathos but may also make them less attractive to the audience.) This is also where MPREG stories come from, but I won't frighten anyone by explaining what those are. You would probably rather not know.

5. Golden Blood - A male character who is one of a very few, or even the last, of a sub-race, who has special powers or abilities or riches because of his heredity. These are ideal fathers genetically, as opposed to behaviorally. This is often a large part of the appeal of vampires, aliens, werewolves, heirs to the estate, etc. Examples: Count D from Petshop of Horrors, Nakago from Fushigi Yuugi, Severus Snape and Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter. (Again, these work well as lonely mysterious minor villains, and they often have that isolation/loneliness pathos going for them.)

7. Other archetypes I have identified: the childlike man, the mystic, the homme fatale; I can't explain these further because I haven't figured out why they're appealing yet.

8. Both men and women are attracted to people who have about the same level of intelligence they do. Since onlt people above a certain intelligence level read books and play difficult elaborate RPG and adventure games, characters of both moderate and high intelligence will be attractive to different portions of your audience. There is a caveat here that it's very akward to try to write a character who's more intelligent than you yourself are.




So, did I forget anything? Who can write the same thing about attractive female character archetypes? What of the above info applies equally to them, and what doesn't?

[edited by - sunandshadow on February 6, 2003 1:05:45 AM]

(i''m not trying to offend anyone here but) a lot of these posts state or imply that the character we fall in love with is female. is this the ultimate geek fantasy? some people already fall in love with the elegance of maths/code/hardware, there are already virtual girls in awful "games", the last thing we need is to do a good job of it and get people hooked. actually falling in love with a computer character is socially tragic compared even to getting aroused by one.

********


A Problem Worthy of Attack
Proves It''s Worth by Fighting Back

quote:

---

Original post by sunandshadow
2) Making someone fall in love is one of the most difficult manipulations a writer can do to their readers - pulling it off is like having the readers give you a medal for writing quality. Fanatical fans are good for your ego.

---

Making someone fall in love with you is one of the most difficult things to do - period.

I don''t ever want to fall in love with a fictional character, I''m behind in my therepy as it is

---

If at first you don''t succeed, call it version 1.0

SketchSoft | SketchNews

---

Maybe I''m in the minority, but I''d rather be in love with a fictional character than with no one. Being in love is fun if sometimes agonizing, and useful in that it motivates me strongly to write. Also I look at it this way: Exploring what I am attracted to in terms of fictional characters gives me a better understanding of myself and what I like, and perhaps what I should look for in real life.

I''d have to say that it''s acts of love on the part of the character that tend to make me fall in love with them. Sort of a, you have to be a friend to have a friend, kind of thing. A somewhat obvious thing I suppose and not as specific as you''d like, but no one''s said it yet.

kseh - actually I think that''s a very useful observation - that sometimes the thing that makes a character appealing is not the character herself but a character dynamic she''s in. I can think of another example of this - a trope that crops up regularly in fanfic is ''love thy enemy'', where you get a stormy violent romance between two characters who start as rivals or actual enemies. And you get funny dialogue like: "I hate you" (Kiss grope) "I hate you too." (Kiss bite suck)

walkingcarcass: I''m making the assumption that most of the people here are males, and males "loving" males is a subject for another day thank you much.

On that note, lets put "love" to the side and figure out the arcehtypes that we just identify with. For example, what Male figures do males (optional: heterosexual) find themselves identifying with and taking a liking to? And taking the risk that we have a female participant or two, what female characters do females (optional: heterosexual) find themselves taking a liking to?

sunandshadow: don''t write stories that are aimed at being a commercial success, otherwise we''ll have a game where you play badboy oil-drillers who go into space to save humanity from an evil asteroid. =P

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.