C#

>>He told me that C/C++ is going to be obsolete in about two years, and replaced with Microsoft's new C#.<<

Not likely - obselete in maybe 10-15 years (bear in mind that COBOL systems from 30 years ago are still around). But yes C# is being used for a lot of what C++ was being used for, more of what VB was being used for, and a lot of what Java was being used for - mostly (like 99.99%) business applications.

If you have never programmed anything then I suggest you learn C# purely as it is easier and more forgiving than C++ to a beginner. You should pick up C++ pretty easily after C#.

Otherwise if you seriously want a job in the game inducstry then learn C++, your chance of getting a game programming job in C# in the next 5 years would be pretty slim.



[edited by - Jerimiah on January 9, 2003 9:29:41 PM]

God, I hope this isn''t true... I''ve been spending a lot of time learning C++, lately. But I''m still only in console programming. To everyone: Should I switch to C#?

>>God, I hope this isn''t true... I''ve been spending a lot of time learning C++, lately. But I''m still only in console programming. To everyone: Should I switch to C#? <<

Don''t panic..... you are on the right path.

A good programmer can adapt to any language farly easily - just learn one for the moment.

Look at this:
http://www.andymcm.com/csharpfaq.htm

It's an FAQ on C#, it has some example code(a Hello World program), and it looks quite similar to C++. I'm sure any C++ programmer could learn C# fairly quickly if they ever need to. This FAQ has some very useful info, I suggest you look at it.

EDIT: Spelling

[edited by - Valkyr on January 9, 2003 9:39:47 PM]

C# or .Net i should say is brand new, i will not hold your friend against his word but he is right i can't specify the time but i strongly believe C# will be used in game development in the near future it might take come time but it will. C# is easy because it combines the power of C++ and the ease of visual basic.


Anyway if you want to learn how to use directX in C# you might want to check out this site www.programmersnet.com this guy is stepping through directx step by step i read his articles as he post them.



[edited by - rawsoft on January 9, 2003 9:45:43 PM]

It must be joking right? I mean really, it could take over biz apps, but just think about it.

C# definitely has it''s strong points, but I don''t know that it will take over as the dominant language for applications that need speed. People said the same thing about Java years ago, and while it''s gained a foothold in the business application sector, it hasn''t crushed C++ like the naysayers predicted.

The one thing about C# is it is tied to both Microsoft platforms AND the .NET Framework. While there are open source efforts to get C# and parts of the Framework ported to other platforms, large part of .NET will still be MS-only.

I think if you''re going to be writing business apps and can guarantee that you will only need to support Microsoft OSes, then C# will be your language of choice. However, I don''t see game programmers, real-time system developers or people needing cross-platform functionality switching to C#.

greg

Its quite true that C# possibly will not dominate C++ just like java, c++ was built with power, a language that will be as powerful as C++ or more will not be seen for a few more years but at the same time don't doubt C# it can be as powerful as C++ it depends on how it is used by the developer, its currently slow but I believe MS will improve on that in the future.

and by the way C# will be available on several systems soon as .net is already being worked on for unix like oses.

dotnet Programmers Network
www.programmersnet.com

[edited by - rawsoft on January 9, 2003 11:29:37 PM]

The Playstation 2 is by far the most popular game console and since Microsoft started a war on Sony by releasing its XBox, you are not likely to see C# anywhere near the Playstation in quite some time. Stick with C++ if you want to do serious game programming, at least until another language is ported to the popular consoles.

I don''t think C# will overtake C++... ever. I think the whole .NET framework is a bunch of horse shit. Unfortunately, MS is used by almost everyone, even if I personally hate it... so I''m probably wrong in saying it won''t overtake c++

I don''t think C# will overtake C++... ever. I think the whole .NET framework is a bunch of horse shit. Unfortunately, MS is used by almost everyone, even if I personally hate it... so I''m probably wrong in saying it won''t overtake c++

quote:

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Original post by caist0
A couple of days ago I talked to a C++ programmer with 15 years of experience. He told me that C/C++ is going to be obsolete in about two years, and replaced with Microsoft's new C#.

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His 15-year experience does not count in predicting whether a language will be replaced with another language. Two years is a very short term. So, you take his opinion as an addition for your overall decision making, but don't look at his experience as everything. To add things up, I am going to predict also You know what, I am predicting that Microsoft wants us to consider using Managed C++ instead of the old C++. You see the term "managed" and the goodies in using it all around in their website, from MSDN to the new Windows. I recall looking at some screenshots of the new Windows, and they mention something like "with Direct3D and Managed..." You know, you can kind of guess what they are going to. "With Managed...you can make application this good and this fast in this Windows!" Well, I think this is what's gonna happen:
C++ -> Managed C++ -> C#

quote:

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I do not know C/C++ (in fact, I had started learning it about a day before I heard this C# stuff), and I want to know what I should learn. My hope, at least right now, is to do game development. One, do you agree that C# has a big a potential as my friend claims, and two, will it apply to game development as well as C++?

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You can see it this way. Look at the engines available for us, developers, either free or not. DirectX, OpenGL, PS2 devkit, GameCube devkit, XBox (duh!), SDL, etc etc etc. Are they compatible in C#? Are they planning for C# in the future? If yes, then you can "safely" learn C# for game programming. If not, then you might consider stick with C++.

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Flamewars don't make you look smart, but idiot.

[edited by - alnite on January 10, 2003 1:53:54 PM]

quote:

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I think the whole .NET framework is a bunch of horse shit.

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I don''t want to start the typical war, but I don''t see how anyone who knows anything about the .NET Framework could not like it. It''s simple, it helps developers write less code, and generally makes our lives easier. How could that be a bad thing?

As for the C# language, I think of it as what Java should have been. It''s just more polished than Java. I heard some columnist call it "Java without the warts". It''s easy to pick up and use if you''re a C++ developer, easier than java was/is, and the language combined with the .NET Framework makes some development tasks a snap that would have taken serious work with unmanaged Win32 C++ code.

I don''t see C# and .NET as taking over the world in 2 years, but it should have a serious foothold by then. I''d guess within 3 years we''ll see .NET as the dominant platform compared to Java for enterprise development. Of course that depends on the mono project and Rotor getting off the ground.

quote:

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Original post by HenryApe
The Playstation 2 is by far the most popular game console and since Microsoft started a war on Sony by releasing its XBox, you are not likely to see C# anywhere near the Playstation in quite some time.

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Playstation 2 + Linux + Mono = C# on PS2

ya but vb.net rules all .net languages beyond belief! ok, well actually I believe they are all equal, each language has advantages and disadvantages...

<- Digital Explosions ->
"Discipline is my sword, faith is my shield
do not dive into uncertainty, and you may live to reap the rewards" - (Unreal Championship)

quote:

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Original post by rawsoft
and by the way C# will be available on several systems soon as .net is already being worked on for unix like oses.

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I was asking about this on another thread. I've only scratched the surface of .NET but I'm skeptical. A lot of learning material is referring to the framework as a wrapper for Win32 and GDI+. Many of the event handlers look disturbing similar to MFC event handlers. Any thoughts on this really being an abstraction of windows based operating systems or an abstraction of MS Windows specifically which can only be tweaked to work with other operating systems?

quote:

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Original post by Valkyr
I'm sure any C++ programmer could learn C# fairly quickly if they ever need to.

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The language maybe. But you've got to learn the framework as well.

[edited by - NotAnAnonymousPoster on January 10, 2003 8:32:00 PM]

I don''t think C# could ever fill the gap where C++ currently resides, even if a compiler that generated native code were to be written.

For one, C++ fills a gigantic gap. C++ is used in tons of different situations. (and it''s even useful in some of them :D)

The other thing is that C# subscribes to the Java-esque "the OOP way is the right way" philosophy. While it works pretty well, it gets in your way in a hurry if you find yourself needing to do something less than "proper." C and C++ didn''t get where they are now because of dogma. They achieved dominance (in part, at least) by being flexible, and by letting the programmer assume responsibility for the consequences of "creative" code.

If C++ is going to be replaced, it''s going to be replaced with something designed with a similarly pragmatic philosophy. (D looks promising)

Not that C# isn''t useful, mind you. It''s great for things that aren''t speed critical, and you can link it up with native code easier than just about anything else.

I''m hip because I say "M$" instead of "MS".

Just an off-topic bit of musical comedy. You talk about C# not being a silver bullet, then say that D might be good. In the musical scale, there is no C# key. C# is actually D.

No, on the Trumpet, a C# is 1, 2 and 3, same as D Flat...

It''s a nasty note, but I play it on the chromatic scale all the time!

<- Digital Explosions ->
"Discipline is my sword, faith is my shield
do not dive into uncertainty, and you may live to reap the rewards" - (Unreal Championship)