I''m so completely fed up with modern fighting games these days. Every single one feels like another Tekken, a game I''ve never liked from the start. Whatever it is about 3D fighting games..I don''t like it. It feels too awkward, too slow, too stale. I can really care less about 360 degree panning camera angles, bump-mapping, real-time lighting and all of those useless dynamics. DOA3, Tekken 4, Virtua Fighter 4..they all look exactly the same to me. The same rehashed characters over and over: the quiet, dark, quasi-evil asian, the enormously tall blonde musclehead, the stupid drunken-boxing style fighter.. I believe the greatest fighting game of all time was Street Fighter II or III. I can''t tell you the number of hours I put into those games in both the Arcades and in my home. Who cares if they''re graphically outdated and pixelated? There is still more depth, call for reflex, timing, and sheer fun than any 3D fighting game yet. 3D just can''t nail it right. Games are relying on complex skeletal animation systems to create more fluid motions in the characters and a multitude of other systems, yet they all seem to goto waste. Nothing can still beat the beauty of sprite animation, as you can see in the amazingly great arcade version of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 . Playing in a 3D fighter just feels so wrong. Moving around seems to be more of a process of tapping the D-pad in a certain direction to make the player bob in a certain direction cautiously. Moves are ridiculously slow. Jumping is practically never incorporated in 3D fighters, and certainly never taken advantage of for complex attacks... Basically, my dream fighting game would be yet another Street Fighter, with some damned good thought put behind the characters and fleshing out their storyline further (the story seemed to completely dissolve away). Since sprite animations would be no problem on newer consoles, the sprites and animations can now be fully anti-aliased and look damned gorgeous, overlayed on a 3D background. The controls would keep to the classic SF intuitive style. I wish developers would take a step back and reconsider what they''re doing to the fighting genre. TheLGN | consumer media with a passion - Senior Editor, Moderator
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I completely agree.

Whereas I would extend the 3D frustration to RTS games. StarCraft, Red Alert or Warcraft II where a great many times more fun to play than Dark Reign or Ground Control...

Designers should really start to realize that graphics, or rather, 3D isn''t everything. I''d rather had played a 2D Warcraft III with giant cities and sieges involving hundreds of units than a fully 3D Warcraft III with very low unit and building capacities...

oops, sorry, posted this thing twice...

[edited by - FiveFootFreak on February 1, 2003 7:10:39 AM]

I for one do NOT agree. Yes many fighters of today are too slow (especially the ones where you can hit somebody a hundred times before they actually hit the ground which is one of the worst features ever)

I played DOA 2 and it wasn''t the dynamic breast movement or the graphics that made me enjoy it, because I don''t mind graphics being bad or good in games that I play.

However it has a great system of fend of attacks and respond rather than blocking which for some reason stops every type of attack.

Stepping aside rather than blatant blocking is one of the beautiful features of 3D fighting games, if implemented well.

Also studying martial arts myself, I never felt much for jump attacks being one of the best ways to attack. Jumping attacks should be devastating when performed well, but also leave the jumper extremely vulnurable.

And to fivefootfreak:

Warcraft III was intended to be like a RPG party running around the map being more important than the cities or sieges. They succeeded pretty well. Although the cities in the end make the difference, most of the battle takes place outside cities.

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"........Basically, my dream fighting game would be yet another Street Fighter, with some damned good thought put behind the characters and fleshing out their storyline further (the story seemed to completely dissolve away). Since sprite animations would be no problem on newer consoles, the sprites and animations can now be fully anti-aliased and look damned gorgeous, overlayed on a 3D background. The controls would keep to the classic SF intuitive style."
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Er, Capcom Vs SNK 2 anyone?



[edited by - dc256x on February 1, 2003 9:02:10 AM]

I don''t agree either. I liked how the 3d world allowed me to sidestep attacks. I played one of my best friends a little while ago (we actually met at an arcade of all places) and he had recently gotten Virtua Fighter4. I haven''t played a fighting game in ages, so he was seriously kicking my butt with his favorite character. However, I soon learned to deal with his tactics by sidestepping and using a counter or a throw. And once I did that, despite him literally having (in his own words_ a thousand hours of play time to his advantage, I was able to make it a 50/50 contest in about an hour of playing.

Let me tell you, I could never beat him at certain 2d games (Samurai Showdown comes to mind). However, because I was able to add the element of 3d positioning that he wasn''t as good at, I could level the playing field.

I think the problems facing fighting games isn''t the look or feel, but like you said, the same contrived characters over and over. I actually liked the concept of Bushido Blade, and wished they would implement more of that style of gameplay. But I disagree that there is something inherently wrong with 3d or that 2d is naturally superior. I think the nostalgia of 2d games lies in their greater diversity (ahhhh, I miss World Heroes and Samurai Showdown).

The thing that designers should remember is that they shouldn''t add 3d just for the sake of 3d or solely to make it better looking. It needs to add something to the plate (like terrain elevation or sidestepping) that adds to the gameplay. Otherwise it''s a gimmick. And gimmicks in and of themselves are ok, as long as it doesn''t detract from the rest of the game.

I enjoy both types of fighters, but 2D ones more. I am a serious SF fan, and possibly the best fighter on newer platforms is Capcom vs. SNK 2. 2D, and unashamedly so. It rocks.

Now, I''ve had plenty of quality time with 3D fighters as well, and they''re also pretty good. Tekken isn''t really my bag (I''ll play it, though, and have mastered juggles for my own protection), but DOA2 was alright. Virtua Fighter is just bleh.

It would be interesting to see a fighting game like this with an interactive story though... like a monk on a campaign to find the ancient scrolls & his decisions on finding it along the way. But it would probably just come down to beat everybody in combat in fighters... oh well.

Ah yes, yet another thread about the inherent superiorty of 2D games over 3D ones. It even has the ever present "why don''t they make games like that any more" complaint when games in the exact same style you''re asking for have been recently released (Capcom vs. SNK 2, Guilty Gear XX, etc.) Will people ever get tired of posting these threads? This is a game design forum, not a "they should make games like this" forum. If you want a game in a particular style, either play the old ones, play the new ones, or make it yourself. If you have some comments on how to make games that have the feel of the old titles with some kind of spin then share them, but if you just want to complain about how much 3D sucks, please don''t post.

Impossible: Go away.

TheLGN | consumer media with a passion - Senior Editor, Moderator
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