I hate Visual Basic...

Congratulations, you have made the right choice! VB is not for 3D engine

About that book, I bought that one, and I kinda like it compared to the other MFC books. The author explains how to make an MFC program without using AppWizard, which is exactly what I need. Most MFC books explains how to use AppWizard right in the beginning: "Chapter 1: AppWizard." However, starting Chapter 4, Jeff Prosise starts using AppWizard. I don't know if you like AppWizard or not (I don't), but I have heard some people say that it's the best MFC book out there.

Yes, you do need to know C++ if you want to understand MFC.

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Current project: 2D in Direct3D engine.
% completed: ~20%

[edited by - alnite on March 19, 2003 10:13:07 AM]

I do not intend to flame, but VB is indeed wrong for a 3D engine, but can be RIGHT for 3D TOOLS for your C++ (or whatever) engine. I think it mostly depends on the speed you need. But creating tools with VB is really easy imho it''s just that they''re slower, and maybe a bit more limited but you get around 99% of the limitations

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If you can afford it, get Borland C++ Builder. 90% of the GUI-building benefits of VB with 90% of the compatibility with Visual C++ (and arguably a more standards-compliant compiler, too).

[ MSVC Fixes | STL Docs | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost

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[edited by - Kylotan on March 19, 2003 11:21:36 AM]

Arguably...? There is no argument, if you check the stats, it IS more compliant .

Anyways, when I make vb tools, I don''t implement the entire engine in VB, I simply write a tool to do what i need, like add objects, etc. I generate my linked lists from the file in my C++ engine, and I use a dynamic array in VB to store the objects (or a large static array). The other method commonly used, is to make your main engine in a .dll and use those functions from your editor and for your game. That way, they look 100% identical .

Yeah, maybe it's me. VB seems so disorganized when you're dealing with multiple creators, object manipulation and stuff like that. I've had no issues solving any programming problems, it's just organization of object data and code which never seems right. A solution which works for one feature doesn't work for another.

Maybe I'll be able to get somewhere with the added organization C++ classes and MFC will give me. Knowing me, I'll probably have another stab at the VB version. I've never run up against a programming problem I couldn't solve, and I'll be damned if some silly organizational problem's gonna stop me. Ah well, back to the drawing board.

Anyway, I'm going to order that book tomorrow, along with one on C++. Can anyone recommend a good book on C++?

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[edited by - iNsAn1tY on March 19, 2003 5:32:27 PM]

If you already have a good graph of programming, "Accelerated C++" is supposed to be good, though I have never reviewed it.

You have a steep learning curve ahead of you. Learning C++, Win32, MFC, and OO programming all at the same time is a lot to digest.

C++ Builder is definitely a RAD tool, like VB, and it suffers similar problems with complicated UIs. It is much easier to work with initially than Win32 or MFC.

quote:

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
UnrealED isn't VB application?

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No, UnrealEd isn't VB (to the best of my knowledge). That's the old one I'm talking about, the one they made Unreal Tournament with. The new one that ships with UT2003 is basically Maya PLE with UnrealEd scripts written on top of it.

quote:

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Original post by Magmai Kai Holmlor
You have a steep learning curve ahead of you. Learning C++, Win32, MFC, and OO programming all at the same time is a lot to digest.

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I'm making it my Summer project. Every summer, I set myself a project for the three or four months I have free. I've learnt C, OpenGL and Advanced BSP, CSG and PVS techniques like that. This year's has recently become MFC and C++. Should be interesting...

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[edited by - iNsAn1tY on March 19, 2003 8:25:02 PM]

iNsAn1tY , what is it precisely you''re trying to do in VB (which version)? I''ve used VB for tons of game related tasks, both engines and their tools, so I don''t really see why VB can''t handle whatever problem you''re trying to solve.

this sounds like a personal problem, there is nothing wrong with using VB to make an editor.

quote:

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
No, UnrealEd isn't VB (to the best of my knowledge). That's the old one I'm talking about, the one they made Unreal Tournament with. The new one that ships with UT2003 is basically Maya PLE with UnrealEd scripts written on top of it.

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Wrong, they ship Maya PLE with UT 2003 but it has nothing to do with UnrealEd

UnrealEd 2.0 (UT Patch 436+) and UnrealEd 3.0 are written in C++ and have surely nothing to do with Maya

[edited by - noVum on March 20, 2003 4:20:38 PM]

quote:

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Original post by noVum
Wrong, they ship Maya PLE with UT 2003 but it has nothing to do with UnrealEd

UnrealEd 2.0 (UT Patch 436+) and UnrealEd 3.0 are written in C++ and have surely nothing to do with Maya

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If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Where did you find that out from? I looked on the back of the UT2003 box:

"Build your own game. Use the Maya Personal Learning Edition 'Unreal Ed' level editor to create your own levels and design your own game modes. Take them online and challenge others in your own arena!"

quote:

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Original post by krez
this sounds like a personal problem, there is nothing wrong with using VB to make an editor.

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Yes, the more I look at it, the more it seems it is a personal problem. Maybe I'm just getting sick of every solution I try not working, and VB making life that little bit more irritating with me having to do all my code the long way. No nice shortcuts to stuff like in C/C++...

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[edited by - iNsAn1tY on March 20, 2003 6:30:56 PM]

Isn''t there some supposedly kick-ass engine written in VB? TrueVision3D or something like that (forget the name)? If it can be done but you can''t do it, doesn''t that mean you suck?

No offense, but the elitist sadomasochism of pooh-poohing higher level languages to join the C++ masses rubs me the wrong way. Languages are tools, nothing more. Remember, people once said of C++ what you say of VB (which actually does suck in many respects, but shines in others).

quote:

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Original post by Oluseyi
Isn''t there some supposedly kick-ass engine written in VB? TrueVision3D or something like that (forget the name)? If it can be done but you can''t do it, doesn''t that mean you suck?

No offense, but the elitist sadomasochism of pooh-poohing higher level languages to join the C++ masses rubs me the wrong way. Languages are tools, nothing more. Remember, people once said of C++ what you say of VB (which actually does suck in many respects, but shines in others).

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Indeed, there are some great works done in VB. I''ve seen some 3D games that are great. The polygon number is a bit lower, but great artists have overcome that problem many times so the games still look beautiful. And it''s mostly the looks, doing math ''n stuff is just as easy in C++ as in VB I think (or maybe assember even)

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quote:

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Original post by Oluseyi
Isn't there some supposedly kick-ass engine written in VB? TrueVision3D or something like that (forget the name)? If it can be done but you can't do it, doesn't that mean you suck?

No offense, but the elitist sadomasochism of pooh-poohing higher level languages to join the C++ masses rubs me the wrong way. Languages are tools, nothing more. Remember, people once said of C++ what you say of VB (which actually does suck in many respects, but shines in others).

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I've noticed some of your other posts are more imflammatory than sometimes required. I am, in fact, a professional VB programmer (I mentioned this in another thread related to this one). I'm just letting off steam, a little frustrated at some of the more inflexible portions of VB (which I can't do anything about anyway), and the fact that to the present, I haven't been able to find a solution to my particular problem. I'll find a solution. I started on the VB version of DarkVertex again just yesterday.

If you look around this forum, you'll find that I've been one of VB's biggest supporters, even when the "C++ masses" you mention have rubbished it. I've pointed out whole games written in VB (Rox is a particularly fine example), and do a lot of my research and development in VB.

What I do not need to be told is that I suck. I get this from my so-called friends enough of the time anyway, and don't expect to come into a community of like-minded people to be told that I suck. It's not like I haven't tried with this problem. I've been at it for more than a year, and haven't come running to the forums here every time I have the smallest problem. Geez, I mean, I didn't think anyone would take it this seriously. Some people are too quick to jump to the conclusion that I'm just bashing VB for no good reason. I love VB. Like a brother.

OK, to clear up the confusion, I don't hate VB, I'm just pi**ed off with it right now, and with myself for not being able to come up with the right solution. I've been at this editor now for ages, and my making it in VB was supposed to be quick. It hasn't been, and now it's getting deeply annoying. Can we all just be friends again, now? I really wish I hadn't made this post in the first place...

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[edited by - iNsAn1tY on March 21, 2003 8:57:25 AM]

Have you tried C# or VB.NET yet?

The .NET class library has a much better design. I find that method names a lot easier to guess than when using VB6 (no pretense of objectivism here ). And it's pretty easy to mix in C++ and/or win32 when the need really arises.


I'm hip because I say "M$" instead of "MS".

[edited by - the speed bump on March 21, 2003 9:57:25 AM]