CHEATS!!!

I started my own game framework in such way that cheat are implemented as a loadable plugin (hence with a specific dll), to remove cheats (for release), I just remove the dll, and voila ! no more cheats !

Or I can have a heavy cheat version for debuging, and light cheat version for release...

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David Sporn AKA Sporniket

Cheats can ruin a game. However, bonuses and cheats you unlock are a great way to extend the life of a game

In general, things like secret characters and secret moves are preferable to giving the player god-like control over his situation in-game.

I think games should have cheats.

Not everyone will be any good at your game. Even if you have variable difficulty levels, they might suck so badly that they need to cheat to get anywhere. By removing all cheats you are preventing the shitty players from enjoying the game. It may be just one mission they get stuck on, or maybe they have trouble with the whole game and need a slight boost every now and again. In either case, a handful of useful cheat codes can give them enough of an advantage to enjoy the game, where otherwise they would have just gotten frustrated and thrown the game back on the shelf.

The argument that 'cheats spoil the game' holds no water in my opinion - if you think that cheats spoil the game, then here's a tip: DONT USE THEM.


[edited by - Sandman on March 28, 2003 12:03:51 PM]

I think cheats have a place, but they detract from the achievement of doing well at a game. I like systems like Perfect Dark, where you can play with the cheats you''ve earned, but you''ll never progress through the game unless you man up and play it through without them. That way, the cheats are a nice reward for achievement and add fun (and a little nostalgia) to the game, but they don''t cheapen the later parts. You can''t use cheats to see cinematic sequences or unlock other cheats, so these things can be used as a measure of your skill as well.

You get all the longevity that cheats offer, without the cheapening of the experience. And since it''s nigh impossible to get them all, there''s very little chance that someone will ever be "done" with the game. They''ll just have to abandon it.

I''d say multiplayer games should not allow cheating in any shape or form (and that anyone who abuses a multiplayer game by cheating in order to gain advantage should be hunted down and slapped round the face with a haddock)

Single player games - sure, why not? A balanced game shouldn''t require cheating to win, but some people may want to finish it even if they can''t master it. Personally, I don''t use cheats in single player either - well, not often anyway Then again I don''t mind not finishing a game. As soon as it stops being fun to play and would force me to have to resort to cheating, I stop for a while. But that''s just me, other people might want to get as much enjoyment out of it as they can.

Steve.

I like cheats that don''t "ruin" the game for you, so no level skips or god-mode. I like cheats that make the player run really fast and have realy cool blur effects when he runs, or lets him fly and stuff. Fun stuff that lets you just have a good time with the game, like laser eye beams.

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Optimus Prime: Private Investigator!

Oscar Mike Foxtrot Golf! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot"
Well Mr Saturn, if that IS your real name...

Excuse me, sir, but...

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I think games should have cheats.

Not everyone will be any good at your game. Even if you have variable difficulty levels, they might suck so badly that they need to cheat to get anywhere. By removing all cheats you are preventing the shitty players from enjoying the game. It may be just one mission they get stuck on, or maybe they have trouble with the whole game and need a slight boost every now and again. In either case, a handful of useful cheat codes can give them enough of an advantage to enjoy the game, where otherwise they would have just gotten frustrated and thrown the game back on the shelf.

The argument that ''cheats spoil the game'' holds no water in my opinion - if you think that cheats spoil the game, then here''s a tip: DONT USE THEM.

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If cheats are too easy to obtain... then what''s the point of playing the game? Unless the story is rather gripping (I actually cheated my way through the first time through Ninja Gaiden II), the point of the game is to have fun by testing one''s skill. If player A plays the game without cheats and player B plays the game with cheats, player A will feel... well... cheated when player B completes the game in half the time he does.

That being said, cheats do have their place. I once threw together the most powerful possible Baldur''s Gate I character (25 in every ability score, Drizzt Do''urden''s equipment) using the game''s cheat codes, but not until I''d beaten the game. I think that, in general, things like secret rooms (these are almost never interesting enough; I intend to change that) are almost certainly preferable to cheats. They''re more fun, because they exist in-game.

Once again, that being said, cheats do have a place in games. How many people, after beating Shadows of the Empire, have done that thing where you need to hold down nearly all of the buttons and move the joystick halfway to the left and then halfway to the right three times so that they can change the game''s gravity settings? That''s just plain fun, and I don''t care what anyone else says against that sort of thing. I think I had more fun making the game crash (N64 games CAN crash without being dusty, you know) over and over again than I would have replaying it.

I think console-style unlocking of cheats is most effective.

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A Problem Worthy of Attack
Proves It''s Worth by Fighting Back

Some modifiable games ought to have those really powerful god, noclip, fly , etc. cheats. They are needed for users who debug their own maps, scenarios or whatever, just as much as the original developer.

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Original post by walkingcarcass
I think console-style unlocking of cheats is most effective.

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If it''s officially packaged by the creator of the game, calling it "cheat" is imo just marketing. The word seems to imply to me that we''re talking about something the constructor did not intend.

Then again, I''m probably with the minority here.

The only place where it''s crystal clear is in multiplayer or online contexts, where cheats (here in the sense of using features not agreed upon or not available to all players) just plain kills the application.

But sure, unlocked features are a powerful incentive to play, very similar to any other type of in-game progress.

Anyone who has played Mafia (PC) should understand how important having the basic sets of cheats in your game should be (talking about the race - what a mess). No matter how great of a designer you think you are, theres always going to be some people who simply do not wish to play through every single level even at the easiest difficulty. Put in a skip level cheat, put in a god mode cheat, and put in weapons/ammo/etc cheats.

Or, you could even have a bonus difficulty like in Tetris when you beat the game on hard mode. I would make it so that if you beat the level, you can skip the level later, but not till you beat it once. I would like moonwalk ability. And as for Ninja Gadien II, I used the Game Genie with invincibility on and STILL couldn''t beat it when I was a kid. Perhaps you could have a bonus weapon that you put together by finding the parts. Also, with certain cheats, you could change the apperance of your character to one of the enemy players. I think cheats should be a reward for those who are skilled enough to use them. If you cheat, the level will accompany itself to your new tactic. Kind of like if you could data drain, then other characters get data drain too.

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Original post by DuranStrife
[...]If cheats are too easy to obtain... then what's the point of playing the game? Unless the story is rather gripping (I actually cheated my way through the first time through Ninja Gaiden II), the point of the game is to have fun by testing one's skill. If player A plays the game without cheats and player B plays the game with cheats, player A will feel... well... cheated when player B completes the game in half the time he does.[...]

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I wouldn't feel cheated at all if it took me longer to finish a good game. I would feel sorry for the cheater because he/she wouldn't have anything to play. I would also feel like I have more gaming skills than B because I completed it all without assistance from cheats. If cheats are hard to obtain what is the point in them? Are you going to put cheats in so people that have played through to get some replay value? I don't know many people that play a game for more than an hour or so after they start using cheats... its gets boring real fast. The thing is, we (my friends and I) don't use cheats when we can beat the game without them, so the game doesn't get boring.

Whatever you do with cheats, make sure they can't be used in multiplayer.

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Original post by Teodric
[...]If it's officially packaged by the creator of the game, calling it "cheat" is imo just marketing. The word seems to imply to me that we're talking about something the constructor did not intend.[...]

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If I put cheats in a game, its so I (and others) can test things. Cheat's aren't usually put in for players. They are just debug tools, no different than the ability to log debug information. In that sense, it is something the designer didn't intend, so it fits your definition.

I agree that some of the things being mentioned are not cheats, like 'extra difficulty for doing X' or 'secret weapon for doing Y' etc, but things like code you type into the console are cheats imo. I would name the in-game stuff 'secrets', but everything meta-game (console, config files, special key sequences for god mode, etc) is either a 'cheat' or a 'config option' depending on what it does.

[edited by - Extrarius on March 28, 2003 5:12:07 PM]

Ok, from now on it is "extra feature" for stuf that is designed to be in the game. Let''s make it manditory that if you use "extra features" in a multiplayer game that they have to choose at least 3 different kinds per person (excluding endless life).

Some games use heavy-duty scripting for the AI and that takes mucho CPU power. Users with minimal specs are out in the cold, yours truly included.

Recently I tried to finish MOHAA and the very last mission yielded 4 to 8 FPS when it would normally yield 15 to 20 elsewhere in the game. Now, try to whack all the germans while running for the exit and while the building is imploding at that refresh rate! Thanks to the GOD mode, I could see the end of the story. I know it''s tempting for some of you to write "upgrade, man", but my money is better invested elsewhere. Hint: I won''t be playing DOOM3 anytime soon...|8-}

-cb

In general, I approve of cheats or extra features in games - they do let weaker players get past nasty situations. Also, they can provide additional value for better players (secrets and unlocked ''cheats''). When I was playing through GoldenEye, trying to unlock all the cheats in that, having unlocked the invulnerability, I used it more than once in order to scout levels to plan my timed attacks and get a sense of how to go about completing the level at high speed without having to worry about getting the first portion of the level just right every time before being able to tackle later sections.

One thing I''m not so sure is a good thing is how easy it is to get cheat lists just by going to somewhere like GameFaqs - at least some of the extra features should probably require actual skills to unlock or discover - something as simple as having the unlock codes generated by the program when it''s installed based on your physical system configuration and then handed out on completion would do it.

Sorry if im repeating what sombody has alredy said but i was to tired to read the replys.

Anyway cheating should definatly be part of a game, UNLESS they are not implemented well. First i will start with things that should not be done. A cheat should NEVER be allowed in a multiplayer net game, there are probably some exceptions to this but i dont know of any. Cheats should not be allowed at any place and any time. Cheats should not be all boring after 30 minits god modes.

Here is what i think cheats should be like, i guess they are sortov more like game enhancers this way though. First i will state the sole purpose of cheats (at least my prospective on it), the sole purpose of cheats are replay value. A very good example of well implemented cheat system was goldeneye. Cheats were like extra quests that added a whole new aspect to the gameplay, speed. Most people who were very good at this game would not settle for just beating it on 00 agent, they wanted to get all the cheats because it was fun and a huge challenge. A good example of bad cheats was also goldeneye. Allmost all of them were just one form or another of god mode with a few exceptions, the best being the secret 007 mode where you chose how strong of weak the enemies were. Yes some cheats shood be godmode varyations, some should make the game harder, some should add WEIRD and CRAZY new aspects of gameplay, some should be funny/entertaining. If the cheats are made to cator to many different types of players desires then it can prolong the amount of gameplay the average player will get out of it.

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I wouldn''t feel cheated at all if it took me longer to finish a good game. I would feel sorry for the cheater because he/she wouldn''t have anything to play. I would also feel like I have more gaming skills than B because I completed it all without assistance from cheats.

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Actually, I''m referring to the childish sort of person who cheats through a 40-hour game in 15 hours and then says he did it with nothing but skill. There are a lot more of them than you''d think.