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Bitmap Textures...
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Important is relative. Depends what you''re developing. 
Check out the tutorials at http://nehe.gamedev.net. Look at tutorials 5 to 8.
Check out the tutorials at http://nehe.gamedev.net. Look at tutorials 5 to 8.
If you are asking wether or not the BMP format is good for textures, then, the answer is that yes, BMP (especially 8 BPP BMPs) is an useful format.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
BMP isn''t as good as TGA files, because TGA files can optionally contain an alpha channel, which can be used in OpenGL/DirectX to use only the part of the texture that is explicitely marked white on the alpha layer. Targa rulez. Though, they take about as much space as bitmaps, unless you apply RLE compression.
Jpeg is better if you need your textures smaller (e.g. with factor 20). The best thing to do imho is to use jpeg ánd tga textures. Just use the format you need when you need it. e.g. don''t use the tga with alpha channel if you don''t have an alpha channel on this picture, just use jpeg instead. Off course, it all depends on what kind of program you''re developping.
just my two cents.
Jpeg is better if you need your textures smaller (e.g. with factor 20). The best thing to do imho is to use jpeg ánd tga textures. Just use the format you need when you need it. e.g. don''t use the tga with alpha channel if you don''t have an alpha channel on this picture, just use jpeg instead. Off course, it all depends on what kind of program you''re developping.
just my two cents.
TGA is 4 times bigger than a 8bit BMP (both uncompressed). Unless you need an alpha layer that can not be computed from the luminosity of the pixels, TGA is a bad idea since the loading time is higher, and the size is also higher.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
quote:
Original post by Raduprv
TGA is 4 times bigger than a 8bit BMP (both uncompressed). Unless you need an alpha layer that can not be computed from the luminosity of the pixels, TGA is a bad idea since the loading time is higher, and the size is also higher.
No offends, but that's bs. A regular uncompressed 24bit tga is as large as a regular uncompressed 24bit bitmap. Even if you add an alpha channel to the 24bit tga, which will make it 32 bit, the size increment is only 33% and not 400%. You stated that you compare an 8bit bitmap to a tga (which is 16/24/32 bit). why the hell would anyone use 8bit textures??? (that's only 256 colors!!!)
I've written code to read/write data, so I've studied the file formats. I know what I'm saying.
And about loading time: so what?? Nobody gives a damn if their game loads in 5 seconds or in 7 seconds. About size: i said you could use jpegs if you needed a smaller size. I also told that you could apply RLE compression.
[edited by - Vich on May 15, 2003 4:48:28 PM]
You would be surprised to see that a 8b textures is 95% of the times what you need.
Unless you have some color gradients in that texture, you don''t need a 24 bpp texture.
And BTW, the loading time does metter, epsecially if you have lots of textures.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
Unless you have some color gradients in that texture, you don''t need a 24 bpp texture.
And BTW, the loading time does metter, epsecially if you have lots of textures.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
quote:
Original post by Raduprv
You would be surprised to see that a 8b textures is 95% of the times what you need.
Unless you have some color gradients in that texture, you don''t need a 24 bpp texture.
And BTW, the loading time does metter, epsecially if you have lots of textures.
I tried 8 bit textures befor, and if you want photo-realistic objects (which a descent game needs), you can not - in any circumstances - use 8 bit textures. They''re only applicable in cartoon-like games. 8 bit bitmap textures are totally useless, where on the other hand 8 bit pictures that have a color index table can be useful, but you were talking about bitmaps.
8 b bitmap (BMP) files DO have a color index, they use a 256 color pallete.
I am using ONLY 8bpp bitmaps in my game, and no one ever complained about the lack of colors in a texture:
Look here
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
I am using ONLY 8bpp bitmaps in my game, and no one ever complained about the lack of colors in a texture:
Look here
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
A 32 bit TGA is 4 times larger than an 8 bit BMP, that is correct. But a 32 bit BMP is also 4 times larger than an 8 bit TGA. And an 8 bit TGA is as large as an 8 bit BMP.
So comparing a 32 bit TGA with an 8 bit BMP and saying TGA''s are 4 times larger is just bullsh!t.
As for loading speed, that is also bullsh!t. Uncompressed TGA and BMP store their image data in the exact same way assuming there''s no padding in the BMP file. So loading the image should take the same time. The only difference is the header, which is not very large compared to the image data. And neither of the headers are very complex and require very little processing power to decode.
So comparing a 32 bit TGA with an 8 bit BMP and saying TGA''s are 4 times larger is just bullsh!t.
As for loading speed, that is also bullsh!t. Uncompressed TGA and BMP store their image data in the exact same way assuming there''s no padding in the BMP file. So loading the image should take the same time. The only difference is the header, which is not very large compared to the image data. And neither of the headers are very complex and require very little processing power to decode.
Most of the people use 32 BPP targa files. And I DID state that a 8b BMP is 4 times smaller than a 32b TGA, so I don''t think I said anything wrong or innacurate.
if you want to use 8 bpp tga, or 32p bmp, or whatever it is up to you, I just said that the 8b bmp files are a viable option for a game.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
if you want to use 8 bpp tga, or 32p bmp, or whatever it is up to you, I just said that the 8b bmp files are a viable option for a game.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
quote:
Original post by Raduprv
8 b bitmap (BMP) files DO have a color index, they use a 256 color pallete.
I am using ONLY 8bpp bitmaps in my game, and no one ever complained about the lack of colors in a texture:
Look here
I said it was good for cartoon-like graphics. And those are in my opinion cartoon-like graphics (i mean: not photo-realistic). I can''t imagine a new commercial game like Quake 3 or the Unreal series to have such graphics.
I looked it up and 8bit bmp''s dó have a color index. My mistake. But that doesn''t mean it''s good.
quote:
Original post by Vich
I said it was good for cartoon-like graphics. And those are in my opinion cartoon-like graphics (i mean: not photo-realistic). I can''t imagine a new commercial game like Quake 3 or the Unreal series to have such graphics.
Quake 3 is neither new nor photo realistic.
Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory
quote:
Original post by Raduprv
Most of the people use 32 BPP targa files. And I DID state that a 8b BMP is 4 times smaller than a 32b TGA, so I don''t think I said anything wrong or innacurate.
if you want to use 8 bpp tga, or 32p bmp, or whatever it is up to you, I just said that the 8b bmp files are a viable option for a game.
You also implied that it''s equally good. You compared bananas with apples. I almost started a flamewar and that''s not my opinion. I misinterpreted some things probably.
My end statement is that 8bit bmp is as large as 8bit tga (while tga is actually a few bytes smaller). And that the quality of a 24bit tga is drastically higher than a 8bit picture (bmp or tga, that''s the same).
Loading time doesn''t matter anymore, so is memory or hard disk space, because most systems can load thousands of textures into memory (because agp slots have direct system RAM access).
quote:
Original post by Raduprv
[quote]Original post by Vich
I said it was good for cartoon-like graphics. And those are in my opinion cartoon-like graphics (i mean: not photo-realistic). I can''t imagine a new commercial game like Quake 3 or the Unreal series to have such graphics.
Quake 3 is neither new nor photo realistic.
Quake 3 doesn''t have an overall photorealistic view, but some of the textures áre photorealistic imho. (some look to toy-like, indeed).
[Project AlterNova] [Novanet]
quote:You can just say "bullshit". <-- see?
Original post by Brother Bob
bullsh!t.
...
bullsh!t
quote:
Original post by Myopic Rhino
You can just say "bullshit". <-- see?
But that''s not cool enough...
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