The TRUTH

Everything goes down to luck, eventually.
Of course, you have to help your luck too, by having some strong skills, and work a lot, to crate demos, maybe a small game, etc. so you can have something to show.
Also, how old are you?

Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory

£20k is at the low end of the spectrum for programmers.

[edited by - flangazor on May 22, 2003 1:41:28 PM]

Im 16 why?
20k is very low yes..but its the kind of pay programmers get.

If personal experience and scociology has taught me anything, nowadays you either have to be the best of the best, or you have to know the right people to have them claim your the best of the best. It''s about the same with any job.
I mean look at Dragon Ball Z, by some art standards, the artist realy sucked with it''s complexity and failure to apply less standardized forms of conveying, but it was the fan-base that made us believe the artists of Dragon Ball Z were realy good, so some of the artists stayed on the project while others were hired for future projects.

Bear in mind this is £20K, not $20K.

One of the biggest things I''ve heard from people in the industry is: don''t do it for the money. Because if you do, you''ll be disappointed.

I''m looking into having the Refinery sell some non-game software - probably some large database systems targetted at developers - because they allow a much more reliable stream of income. The people who make money in the industry are the people who provide goods and services to the others in the industry - the toolmakers and engine licencers.

The problem is that the purpose of games is different from that of conventional software. Most software is developed to solve a problem or accomplish a specific task; games are to ''entertain,'' and the goals are much more vague.

There''s also the problem of substitutes. If you go out and buy a game, you''ve got thousands to choose from; if you want to go out and buy a 3D modelling suite, though, you''ve got around 10. Meaning that they can put up their prices, and you can''t go someplace else; with games, one major factor for casual gamers making purchases is that the game they pick up is cheaper than the other stuff they see.

(This is called ''price elasticity of demand,'' and is a fundamental economic concept. Games are ''more elastic,'' than most software, meaning that a change in price results in a proportionally greater change in quantity demanded; as opposed to the ''inelastic'' 3D modelling suites, where a change in price results in a proportionally smaller change in quantity demanded. This is mainly what the FairPlay campaign overlooked. Woo, I''m an economist ).

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.

quote:

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Original post by ACAC
Im 16 why?
20k is very low yes..but its the kind of pay programmers get.

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Well, if you are only 16, then you do have some time to learn stuff, and practice a lot.
However, I doubt soemone can accurately predict how the games market will be in 5-6 years, when you will be out of college (if you will go there in the first place).
My advice is: go on with your dream, in life people usually regret the things they didn''t try, rather than the things they tried and didn''t work.

Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory

Im still going to try because I enjoy it. Oh btw I almost got the eternal lands config editor working then found that somone had already completed it haha

Your teacher''s wrong. Well, mostly. The pay in the game industry is better than what he has led you to believe, though it is somewhat lower than non-game jobs. It''s getting better, though. You also don''t have to be the best of the best - but you do have to be good. The market *is* pretty rough for programmers right now, but a lot will change by the time you''re ready to enter it, and it seems likely that things will be better by then.

One other thing to keep in mind is that not all non-game jobs are boring. They tend to be easier to get than game jobs, and with professional programming experience in *any* industry, you''ll be much better positioned to eventually get a job in the game industry.

Then again, I''d suppose that it depends on where you work and who you work for. Is this about right, Dave?

I started the programming directly in the games industry, when I was 19 (just out of the highschool). That was in fall 98.
I had a friends at a game magazine, and once they asked me if I am willing to work for a game, which required ASM.
I said: "Sure!", and a week later I got that job.
To see more info about that game, go here. Anyway, 7 months later, I quit the team, because of some fights with the boss.
At that time we were only 3 people working at it (2 programmers and 1 artist), now I heard they have like 5 programmers and 4 artists, or something like that. But they are working at that game for 5 years now.
Anyway, my next job was working at a company that was focused on web staff. Mostly making web pages for various customers, mostly abroad. I had a friend there, who was doing some data entry, like updating our sites content every week, etc.
That friend of mine reffered me to the boss, and he told me that he wants to see my skills, so he wanted me to do a small, simple web server for him, in ASM. 2 weeks later, I had the server (I still have the sources somewhere, if anyone is interested)
He liked the web server, and told me that he wants me to do a chat client/server thing (some sort of a very stripped ICQ)
I told him that I can do something better, a graphical mud.
So, I worked at it for 6 months, and, eventually, my boss canceled the project, because he thought it won''t make enough money. After that, he ''forced'' me to learn PHP, and do web programming. And, needless to say, I HATED it. It''s not very dificult, it is far easier than game programming, but it is so boring, and unfulfilling...
Then, I worked as a web programmer for two other companies, and I realy hated doing that.
My point is, if you start your career with game programming, the other stuff will be boring, and unfulfiling. At least, that was my case




Height Map Editor | Eternal Lands | Fast User Directory

quote:

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Original post by smiley4
Then again, I''d suppose that it depends on where you work and who you work for. Is this about right, Dave?

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Absolutely. Both factors can make a significant difference.