Demand for programmers

You are the one who is going to college, not your parents.
By the time you graduate, you will be over 21, you are a fully independent individual.
If you don''t get a job, it''s your job feeding yourself, not your parents.

In other words, major in what you like, not what they (they=world+economy+parents+etc) like.

Parents are giving advice, but if you can show them how much you love CS major, they will let you in (but some parents still don''t).

their are also basing their opinoin on the current market and not what it would be like when you graduate. programmers are always needed just like a good engineer.

Do what you want because it''s what you like, not because it''s what is in demand now. If you keep chasing what is in demand, you''ll never be happy and will need to always change jobs.

-=Lohrno

my $0.02: Do what you''re good at. Folks often say do what you like but if you''re not good at it, you won''t do well.

On the other hand, do what you''re good at. At the end of the day, if the demand is high, jobs go to the most talented. Not the folks who enjoy it the most.

When it comes down to it, no matter how much you like something, it''s still work. Work is called work for a reason.

-dip

Heh; no programming jobs in Winnipeg but do what you''ll enjoy. What do your parents want you to do?

Chris Barry (crbarry at mts.net)
My Personal Programming Depot

The only reason the need for programmers appears to have diminished is because of the huge number of wannabe programmers that have joined the field.

It''s easier to find "people who program" these days because there are simply more of them, but the need for Quality hasn''t changed.

Up until recently, it was taken for granted that most programmers would be good engineers. Finding "A" progammer generally meant that you got someone who knew what they were doing.

Now, it''s incredibly easy to find programmers, but the level of quality has really fallen. I think it''s great that anyone with a PC can jump into software development and run with it, but unfortunately this has saturated the market with lots of people who really aren''t prepared to do it well.

The worst about it for the ones of us that are serious (as you seem to be) is that WE get a bad reputation for being programmers because of the public perception of what a "programmer" does.

The concept of software development is so watered down in most people''s minds they think we do data entry type stuff, or only work "with" computers.

I agree that there is no shortage of "computer people", but I honestly don''t think that the need for quality software developers has gone down.

I just think that the popular conception of "programmer" has gone down so far that anyone who writes a BAT file is considered a "master hacker" in the public''s mind.

If you''re serious about becoming a hardcore programmer, by all means do it. People like that will always be needed. On the other hand, if you only want to make webpages and mess with a little VB now and then, you probably don''t want to depend on it for a career. The need for guys like THAT has definitely gone down.


"Like all good things, it starts with a monkey.."

Look on Cnn.com for the article on game intitute in Texas. This industry employs 30,000 ppl now, and will grow at a rate of 15% a year, according to Jupiter research.


Plenty of work to come, and it''s hard enough to find a good programmer, so more in the field should make it better to fill the top slots.

My 2 cents

Now is a bad time to be a CS major because there are still a lot of laid off developers.

5 years ago when I started my CS degree they were giving jobs to anyone who could put VB script in a web page. It didn''t help that the market was flooded by IT colleges pumping out wanna-be programmers who could barely remember the necessary acronyms to get past the interview.

Now demand for programmers is way down but the supply is still there. This will make it harder than usual to get a job until the wannabes get laid off for the last time and switch to something else. Then the ratio of people-who-are-interesting-in-technology to parasites will increase, giving way to more innovations, creating more demand for programmers, and the cycle will begin again.

By the time you graduate, things will be much better. And you wouldn''t want to have a career in a particular field because you parents to you too, would you?

Just out of curiosity, what are your parents pushing you towards? Its not Biology, is it?

I have a similar situation. My parents encoruage me to do what I want (comp sci) but recognize the market for CS majors sucks right now. Actually, I am going for a CSE major, with perhaps a minor (physics, maybe?) in another science to add skills to my resume. I would like to get a masters, so I am hoping that in 6+ years, the market for CS majors will have improved.

Here''s hoping

PEon

The game industry grew 8% last year, 6.8 billion in total revenue. Furthermore, it''s a full 4 years, possibly more, until you graduate.

---

Gamedev for learning.
libGDN for putting it all together.
An opensource, cross platform, cross API game development library.

I think it''s sad that very few of you are thinking of innovation, only of jobs and employment. One thing that can jumpstart this ailing economy is innovation - new products and services that enrich people''s lives and form compelling arguments for spending, much like Windows 95 in its day. This kind of innovation often comes from young hackers/programmers, which could possibly be you in a few years if you stick with what you''re interested in.

Even if you''re not the one who has an innovative epiphany, you may interact with someone who does, either influencing or being influenced by that person.

Just remember that a college degree doesn''t guarantee you anything, so getting a degree in something you really don''t care for (unless it''s mind-boggling-ly easy) is twice the pain.

Well, I kinda think the true innovators just are, and telling people to be innovative isn''t helpful because people can''t learn to be innovative...

-=Lohrno

In the UK, the demand for business developers has reduced quite considerably over the past few years, and I cannot see the situation improving.

This is due to a number of factors:

1. World and local economy - say no more

2. Changes in local employment legislation - business national insurance and general insurance going up, companies worried about taking on freelancers because they might claim employee rights, etc.

3. Over supply - more developers on the market, since it is easier to get the knowledge/qualifications required for the market. Home PCs are cheaper, more self-teach books, the internet as a learning tool, more academic courses, more qualifications industry (MS) and academic, etc.

4. More ready-made solutions rather than build-your-own. In business this includes turn-key applications, in gaming this includes third-party engines.

5. Outsourcing development to other countries

Points 3, 4, and 5 are the trends that are global and will continue. It will be easier to teach yourself the skills, there will continue to be more ready-made solutions, and companies will increasingly outsource development to other countries to cut costs. Outsourcing is happening now in the business area (not just software development but also call centres etc), and I''m sure it will gain popularity in the games market too as game companies are headed by more and more business suits rather than games enthusiasts.

If you are thinking of a career as a developer you should ask yourself whether companies in the country that you want to work in definitely need local developers. Any business owner definitely needs a local engineer on-site to fix the company''s heating system, so if you''re a qualified heating engineer you should get work with local businesses. If your skill is in developing software does this same business need any bespoke software development and if so do they have to get their development work done locally? It''s not just businesses but people too, people need local dentists, doctors, teachers, lawyers, accountants, architects, builders etc.

If you''re based in a country which provides development outsourcing then there should be the developer opportunities.

That''s the doom and gloom over. Finally ask yourself whether a computer degree is something that you will enjoy, will cope with, and thus will do well in - these factors are important. If there are other degrees and fields that equally interest you it might be worth considering doing these instead as this might be your only chance. These other degrees might provide the only viable way to learn the subject, whereas nowadays I believe that you can learn software development without having to do a degree in it. In a saturated developer market it always helps if you can offer something more that just developer skills, e.g. a financial company might prefer someone with financial skills/maths as well as computing, likewise a games company might prefer someone with maths/physics/art skills as well as development skills.

To change the topic a bit, Programming is a dificulty but not that much... I like the end result like a finished game or object. God know how I suck at math and scripting but I struggle at it because my disire is more than my dificulties.

If you love to make games... do it.

I don''t care that I could make $60,000 or $24,000 a year.
The demand for game developers is High but who knows... Maybe it will change in the future you can''t decide your future on current trends... only what makes you happy.

Does a painter paint because he can be rich and famous?
Maybe the famous part but only the painter paints because he is a painter.

DUDE... I love games... I love game developing...
remind yourself everyday, "What do I want in life."
Games are a waste but I love them and I cant go one minute without thinking of them.

____________________________________________________________
The Dumbass Club; Im not only a member, Im the President!
J O I N U S !

Besides being a programmer, you also need to be good at effeciency. I would invest your time in learning different technologies that allow you to integrate applications and documents together faster.

Anyway, it is good that the computer programming market is not as much in need. This just means that there will be fewer people going for these degrees. I can attest that the majority of people that go for programming are wasting their time.

I want to give you an example of what I mean. At my college, people are amazed that I am able to program some of the things I program. I am seriously the only person who is able to program a large application. Though, I am nothing special compared to alot of people out there. I can do a google search and easily find stuff that blows anything I have done out of the water.

Still, I have what it takes to become a good programmer, but what about all of these other people I attend college with? They can''t program anything without someone literally holding their hand through it. What is the limiting factor? THEY NEVER READ ANY BOOKS! I am practically the ONLY person who has read anything outside of the cirriculum. It is so sad. I get in groups to find that I really can''t expect much code out of any of the members. Hell, I would be amazed if most of them could create something longer than 4 pages worth of code.

Let me tell you how bad it is. In some of my groups we divided up the work. I was always in charge of putting everything together in the end. I seriously wrote the whole program myself. Then, if I got anything from any of the other members, I had to fix an awful amount of code, and try to substitute it for what I had already completed. Either that, or they were only able to do testing or some kind of power-point presentation.

None of these people are dumb in any way. In fact, most of them have above a 3.7 GPA. They just can''t program worth shit.