Virus AI

Obviously, the most successful virus in history is Microsoft Windows, heh heh...

Seriously, I think the level of "intelligence" installed in most viruses is fairly limited. The more creative aspects of computer virus design are probably in their strategies to disguise themselves.

quote:

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Original post by FrancoisSoft
Supposedly there is this virus out that contains very sophisticated AI. It can crawl into a computer and easily take over it and even prevent its distruction! It desires just to survive and annoy you. This virus is called the Codeloader. I''m not sure if this is true but I did think it was interesting. Can viruses really be that smart? What''s the smartest virus you''ve heard of?

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Obviously you just watched Terminator 3.

Virii already act to prevent their own destruction, but that''s mainly due to the way Windows makes it easy for such things to hide. But technically any program with low-level access to a machine could intercept activities that could threaten its existence. The key is to deny it that kind of access, and that usually means running a more secure operating system that won''t give privileged commands to user processes.



[ MSVC Fixes | STL Docs | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost
Asking Questions | Organising code files | My stuff | Tiny XML | STLPort]

You''ll remember the film Independence Day?

This scientist uses a Windows laptop to write and upload a virus onto an unseen alien computer (probably running a version of Andromeda Unix) to bring it crashing down.

Now that''s Smart!




Stevie

Don''t follow me, I''m lost.

Yeah that was l33t :D

Oldow one of the Java''s developers once said that the virus was writen in java and therefore it raned on the alien spaceship.

.:3delavnica.com:. Slovenian digital colture
Another day, another bug

Smartest virus''s I''ve heard of have yet to be coded, but if they did, would reign havok on all.

A good, or "smart" virus would have to have some standards. I would think it would require some sort of deception as to what is actually causing the problem. It would have to be able to turn itself off or alter it''s behavior if it was "close" to being caught. Example: a virus that lies dormant for 6 months. When it activates, every 50th mouse click is ignored. A week later, every 40th click is ignored. Week later, every 30th click is ignored, etc... until you get down to like every other click is ignored. At first, you''d think you have a mouse problem. You might try buying a new mouse or updating your driver. At this point, the virus would need to detect a new mouse or new driver, then hibernate for another 3 or 4 months. This deception would mke you think it was just your mouse and the idea you had a virus wouldn''t come into play. You''d go through a few mice or update drivers like 3 or 4 times before a smart person would catch on. A dumb person would never figure it out and just hate mouse-makers for making a crap product.

quote:

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Original post by FrancoisSoft
Supposedly there is this virus out that contains very sophisticated AI. It can crawl into a computer and easily take over it and even prevent its distruction!

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i haven''t been in the virus world for a while, but from what i remember i highly doubt such a virus exists

Viruses are pretty simple - get someone to run the virus code (viruses always have to be run by a user) and then the virus copies itself somewhere it wants to be and hopes no one notices it. When run, it can do whatever it wants. Normally this is just copying itself but sometimes it means doing something naughty or nice

Viruses cannot take over a computer. What they can do is whatever a user can do. So they can copy files, erase files, send emails, that sort of thing. Best of luck getting a virus to do a low level format of a harddrive or wiping out another user''s files (assumes the user doesn''t have proper permission to do those things either). And even then it''s unlikely to be able to do much if a virus scanner is installed

The main success criterion for a virus is not getting discovered. In the old days, that meant being small. Being really small doesn''t allow for super complicated long code

Most viruses are abysmal failures. Most are incapable of infecting anything. Most can be caught be a virus scanner. And what''s really embarassing, most viruses today don''t even try to be viruses. They''re VB macros and stand alone EXE''s with names like haha.exe and runme.exe. Pathetic

If a "virus" does manage to infect something, which is rare (as in few viruses can do it), most will get caught by virus scanners. A signature scanner looks for known viruses. Does that by reading the code and matching against known code segments. A heuristic scanner looks for dangerous code. In the old days, that meant anything that called interrupt 9, 13 or 21. If your code calls the format function, the scanner notices that and does a thorough check and tells you if the code looks like it might do a naughty

So the trick to writing a decent virus is to a)not let anyone identify you and b)disguising what you intend to do. For a) you either have to be new or polymorphic (an East European specialty). For b) you gotta write sneaky code

So while it''s possible that there''s some super nifty uber-genius virus roaming around, i personally wouldn''t worry about it

-b

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Viruses cannot take over a computer. What they can do is whatever a user can do. So they can copy files, erase files, send emails, that sort of thing. Best of luck getting a virus to do a low level format of a harddrive or wiping out another user''s files (assumes the user doesn''t have proper permission to do those things either). And even then it''s unlikely to be able to do much if a virus scanner is installed

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Why can''t a virus format your drive? As you said it can do things a user can, so it could do that. Wouldn''t even need to finish, just start writing over yer boot record...

Also, what good is a virus scanner for a new virus? It''s not like all viruses(correct plural? viri?) derive from a VirusBaseClass. Sure, they can look for suspicious activity (mass emailing, accessing certain ports, etc...) but until the virus is found and reverse engineered, a virus scanner won''t do crap for a new virus.

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Original post by Stonicus

Why can''t a virus format your drive? As you said it can do things a user can, so it could do that. Wouldn''t even need to finish, just start writing over yer boot record...

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No, thay can do things the Kernel do, so that would be a lot more. Low-level format is not an option though, since NO IDE drive will allow that.

But by definition, if it "can crawl into a computer", it is not a virus. It is a worm. Once in the system, its payload could very well be an infected executable.

Obviously, you guys aren''t paying attention to the whole W32/Blaster stuff. Lame worm, good spreading potential. No user intervention required. No AI, by the way.

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Obviously you just watched Terminator 3.

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Supposedly there is this computer that contains very sophisticated AI. The computer is called SkyNet.

Personally, I think viruses are a scam created by the virus scanning companies. It would:

1. Be the ultimate money-making scams. Make viruses, then sell software to get rid of them!

2. It always seems that the virus scanning companies always know how viruses actually _work_ before anyone else does.

I always had my doubts about how virus scanners could scan for so many viruses in such a short period of time. That''s why I refuse to use virus scanners. Almost every virus can be cured by a downloadable fixer.

---
Brent Gunning | My Site

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2. It always seems that the virus scanning companies always know how viruses actually _work_ before anyone else does.

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The idea the virii are all scams set aside- it is their JOB to figure out how they work...don''t you think if you were a professional at decomiling virii you would be a 1337 hax0r too? (too much counter-strike )

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Brian J
DL Vacuum - A media file organizer I made | MM

Virusus are never smart enough to take over a computer. Just maybe cause a little mischeif here and there. delete a couple files. Copy itself. Scramble some programs. Thats basically it though.
PS. No virus is indestructable, you can always hunt it down and destroy it.

[edited by - akram43560 on August 17, 2003 1:56:39 PM]

Virus antidescruction "AI" doesn''t have to be hard to make:

if( enterd_new_computer )
{

if( SearchFor("Norton Antivirus") == Found )
{
Delete("Norton Antivirus");
}
else if( SearchFor("Other Antivirus") == Found )
{
Delete("other antivirus");
}

MakeHidden(self);
MakeWriteprotected(self);
}

while(1)
{
if( UserAtemptToDeleteMe() )
{
DeleteRandomApplication();
CrashComputer();
}
}


----------------------------------------------
Petter Nordlander

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world. The who understand binary and those who don''t"

I think viruses with AI would be too big to simply download and copy. A file of 1 MB is better to hide and faster to run than a 100 MB file. Also, taking over the computer without ''installing'' your own OS is kinda difficult. And the user can always reset the PC (by changing hard drive and erasing the BIOS). Smart viruses should be small, interactive programs, genetical adapting to virus scanners and sharing a part of the CPU-speed over internet.

In my opinion, the best virus would be a small, harmless virus. Adapting to the scanners and not causing any damage. Simply hide and seek new computers to infect. If done properly, it could take virus software companies weeks to find out that there is a new virus. And by that time, the virus should have adapted to the scanners, dodging any attempts to erase it.

I''m not saying smart viruses don''t exist, but I think they aren''t good viruses (if there are any).

Some of the more threatening virii can mess with the BIOS. Not nice.

quote:

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Original post by Stonicus You''d go through a few mice or update drivers like 3 or 4 times before a smart person would catch on. A dumb person would never figure it out and just hate mouse-makers for making a crap product.

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You could argue that the The games industry is just spreading viruses in order to sell better graphics cards

Oli

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All the best problems start with C

The Manta-X Homepage

quote:

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Original post by PhiberOptic
Virus antidescruction "AI" doesn''t have to be hard to make:

if( enterd_new_computer )
{

if( SearchFor("Norton Antivirus") == Found )
{
Delete("Norton Antivirus");
}
else if( SearchFor("Other Antivirus") == Found )
{
Delete("other antivirus");
}

MakeHidden(self);
MakeWriteprotected(self);
}

while(1)
{
if( UserAtemptToDeleteMe() )
{
DeleteRandomApplication();
CrashComputer();
}
}

---

*sarcasm mode*

hey, it doesn''t compile!

Do you still remember those Office Macro viruses, which spreaded thru infected documents. One of them randomly swapped a word here and there around the document. After couple days writing you notice something wrong, you have possibly sent it to some of your associates, check your backups and notice that they are screwed also. What can you do, remove the virus and write the darn thing again.
No AI, but a nasty enough to make people sweat.
Main ideas:
a) sneakiness, can stay hidden for some time and still make damage and screw the backups
b) spreads thru trusted channels, instead of those "Hey check out this new screen saver-mail coming from bill.gates@microsoft.com"
c) too nasty to be long living tho

Also that brand new nachi.a is a nice one
Check it out.

Vikke Matikainen

quote:

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Original post by Kosmo
Also that brand new nachi.a is a nice one
Check it out.

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Wow... should we classify that as a virus or a vaccine?

quote:

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Original post by baylor
Viruses cannot take over a computer. What they can do is whatever a user can do. So they can copy files, erase files, send emails, that sort of thing. Best of luck getting a virus to do a low level format of a harddrive or wiping out another user''s files (assumes the user doesn''t have proper permission to do those things either). And even then it''s unlikely to be able to do much if a virus scanner is installed

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A virus can format a hard drive quite easily, but not from within an OS. In an extreme situation, a virus can also destroy hardware (but that''s very extreme, would be exploiting some hardware bug). A virus can also destroy the BIOS.

Of course, none of that stuff happens very often, because many users have brains and virus scanners. But it''s not impossible.