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The Truth?

Started by The Reindeer Effect Sep 7, 2003 at 1:29 PM 40 replies 1.1k views

Original Post

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:29 PM

... mith can beat off to this The guy has some good points, and although I haven''t looked up his sources he at least has several that are well known. Not to mention he was pretty high up in British politics.

It''s not reality that''s important, but how you perceive things.

klems

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:40 PM

If that''s true, that''s some scary shit...

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

capn_midnight

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:45 PM

remember, just chill...

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

Arild Fines

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:49 PM

There''s no question of whether the PNAC stuff is true or not - PNAC has a website, where the "Rebuilding American''s Defences" document can be found. There is also a list of people who signed the PNAC charter, which includes Rumsfeld Cheney and Jeb Bush. It''s all out in the open.

BTW - does anyone else think this has similiarities to the second season of "24"?

The Reindeer Effect

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:51 PM

Hehe, is Fox in on it too?

It''s not reality that''s important, but how you perceive things.

klems

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:51 PM

quote:
Original post by Arild Fines
There''s no question of whether the PNAC stuff is true or not - PNAC has a website, where the "Rebuilding American''s Defences" document can be found. There is also a list of people who signed the PNAC charter, which includes Rumsfeld Cheney and Jeb Bush. It''s all out in the open.

BTW - does anyone else think this has similiarities to the second season of "24"?

OK - it IS some scary shit.

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

Bossk

Sep 7, 2003 at 1:58 PM

OMG it''s a conspiracy ... someone hold me.

Monty Python

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:00 PM

Plans for the US to dominate space?

*Sigh* I''d have thought we''d have resolved our differences by then and could work together, the whole of humanity to travel through space.

Just when I think my respect for the Bush Administration (or the majority of politicians for that matter) couldn''t get any lower they always come and prove me wrong.

capn_midnight

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:01 PM

quote:

First, it is clear the US authorities did little or nothing to pre-empt the events of 9/11. It is known that at least 11 countries provided advance warning to the US of the 9/11 attacks. Two senior Mossad experts were sent to Washington in August 2001 to alert the CIA and FBI to a cell of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation (Daily Telegraph, September 16 2001). The list they provided included the names of four of the 9/11 hijackers, none of whom was arrested.

Okay, you may be thinking right now "Those sons of bitches, how could they have just stood by and done nothing", but let me ask you this. What would you have had them do? Arrest people on the pretense that an informant SAYS they are terrorists? In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. If they had no solid evidence (other than someone pointing fingers), then they cannot legally or ethically do anything. As much as you would like to believe otherwise, we don''t have secret police here in America. This isn''t the movies, people don''t just dissappear (unless it''s witness protection for informants, but that''s a good thing).

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

The Reindeer Effect

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:03 PM

My biggest concern was not bringing the fighters up into the air. Not that I wan''t to shoot down planes, but at least make an attempt to stop it.

It''s not reality that''s important, but how you perceive things.

klems

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:03 PM

quote:
In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. If they had no solid evidence (other than someone pointing fingers), then they cannot legally or ethically do anything.

Guantanamo Bay? Ah yes, I forgot - that''s on Cuba...how convenient!

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

capn_midnight

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:04 PM

quote:
Original post by Monty Python
Plans for the US to dominate space?

*Sigh* I''d have thought we''d have resolved our differences by then and could work together, the whole of humanity to travel through space.

Just when I think my respect for the Bush Administration (or the majority of politicians for that matter) couldn''t get any lower they always come and prove me wrong.

There are treaties banning offensive weapons in space.

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

template

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:05 PM

And Americans wonder why people hate them...

EDIT: I mean Americans as in their politicians, military etc. not the people.

[edited by - template on September 7, 2003 3:06:31 PM]

capn_midnight

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:07 PM

quote:
Original post by Valderman
quote:
In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. If they had no solid evidence (other than someone pointing fingers), then they cannot legally or ethically do anything.
Guantanamo Bay? Ah yes, I forgot - that''s on Cuba...how convenient!

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

Yes, outside of America completely. The prisoners in camp X-Ray are not American citizens, and were not captured on American soil. They are POW''s, and are being treated as such. One does not hold a trial for a POW before putting him in jail.

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

klems

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:13 PM

quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
quote:
Original post by Valderman
quote:
In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. If they had no solid evidence (other than someone pointing fingers), then they cannot legally or ethically do anything.
Guantanamo Bay? Ah yes, I forgot - that''s on Cuba...how convenient!

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

Yes, outside of America completely. The prisoners in camp X-Ray are not American citizens, and were not captured on American soil. They are POW''s, and are being treated as such. One does not hold a trial for a POW before putting him in jail.

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

According to your govt, they''re not POW''s - they are "illegal warriors" or something like that. That''s why the whitehouse people don''t think the Geneva convention applies.

Oh, and why would it make any difference that they are not American citizens? Are you so superior to other humans that they aren''t even worthy of humane treatment?

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

capn_midnight

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:16 PM

quote:
Original post by Valderman
According to your govt, they're not POW's - they are "illegal warriors" or something like that. That's why the whitehouse people don't think the Geneva convention applies.

Oh, and why would it make any difference that they are not American citizens? Are you so superior to other humans that they aren't even worthy of humane treatment?

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

how are American laws going to apply to people that aren't Americans? That was really a poorly thought out reply.

These violations to the Geneva Convention are that we won't let the prisoners see lawyers or relatives. This is supposedly in violation of Article 3 section 1 part d of the geneva convention, which forbids the passing of a sentence or execution without a trial. Who says these people have been sentenced yet? Who says that being denied visits from relatives is a violation of human rights? How are their relatives even going to get to Cuba? Should we be obligated to spend tax payers money to ship the relatives at no cost to themselves?

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

[edited by - capn_midnight on September 7, 2003 3:22:37 PM]

Mithrandir

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:17 PM

The plans for PNAC have been well known for years now, and everyone who pays attention to what is going on can see that the Iraqi invasion was inevitable with these jokers in charge.

I knew, before Bush was "elected", we''d be at war with Iraq in 2 years. I was a little early with my estimates, but nonetheless accurate.

Of course the "war on terror" is bullshit. Iran has been trying to cooperate with us against al-Qaida, but we want no part of it.

TWAT is bullshit because the USA still has yet to even define what terrorism is, besides the vague notion that anyone who doesn''t agree 100% with the USA is a terrorist. Remember, "You''re either with us, or you''re against us".

The nature of terrorism is that you cannot wage a war against it, because actions like war will inevitably breed even more terrorism, and we''ll be in a perpetual state of chasing boogeymen. Ad interim, we''ll impose far more dangerous and draconian policies designed to restrict terrorism, but the only thing it will really accomplish is making innocent people think you are repressing them. Historically, repressed peoples fight back.

The Reindeer Effect, please refrain from including me in your derogatory remarks hereafter. Your assertion that I take joy in watching my country piss off everyone in the world offends me; I have done my best to prevent this situation in the first place.

Eskhan

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:18 PM

quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
quote:
Original post by Valderman
quote:
In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. If they had no solid evidence (other than someone pointing fingers), then they cannot legally or ethically do anything.
Guantanamo Bay? Ah yes, I forgot - that''s on Cuba...how convenient!

"Shinji woke up in the bath and screamed loudly.
He immediately checked for the presence of his manhood and
sighed in relief when he confirmed it was still attached."

Yes, outside of America completely. The prisoners in camp X-Ray are not American citizens, and were not captured on American soil. They are POW''s, and are being treated as such. One does not hold a trial for a POW before putting him in jail.

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

Why don''t put your head a little farther into the sand and don''t realise that this is just a trick used by a government who doesn''t respect basic human rights.

--------------------
Though this program be madness, yet there is a method in''t

Mithrandir

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:19 PM

quote:
Original post by capn_midnight
how are American laws going to apply to people that aren''t Americans? That was really a poorly thought out reply.

The Geneva conventions are not American Laws. They are international laws, the very same we used as a justification to invade Iraq.

One holds no integrity if he uses laws to justify an invasion, then proceeds to break those very same laws.

capn_midnight

Sep 7, 2003 at 2:24 PM

I edited my post, inbetween the time I clicked edit and save modifications, some posts were made that quoted me. You may want to update.

The road ahead of you may be hard, but if there were no road to walk, would life be worth living?

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