Hi everyone, first please let me say that I find the threads on this design forum fascinating to read My question is what modern pen and paper system system do you recommend to convert to pc game? The game I'm currently programming is a clone of an old game called xcom and one it's done I'm playing with the idea of implementing a pen an paper system. I've been thinking of using Cyberpunk 2020, Shadowrun or a really old game called Bureau 13. Any suggestions are most appreciated. --- Today, is a good day to code. [edited by - BinhNguyen on January 14, 2004 7:44:48 PM] [edited by - BinhNguyen on January 14, 2004 7:55:23 PM]

I suggest you read the very recent "designing my own pen n paper RPG" thread, as some veterans of PnPRPG (me included) were sharing their (strong) opinions on various existing systems and their respective merits.
I am sure it would give you some ideas for a start.

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Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

go with shadowrun its my favorite system.

It might be an interesting project if your willing to undertake the effort. To create a shadowrun engine that includes all the rules. But loads the acutal game data from a seperate data file. That way you could also release an editor to allow the user to create there own shadowrun adventures. Let them design maps, insert events, quests. sort of like rpg maker but for shadowrun.

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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

I would suggest GURPs, since it has (afaik) the largest collection of rules available, you can probably find a rule for any situation you feel like implementing. It needs a little modification (imo) for the way skills are bought (stats effect skills too much, imo), but the fixes wouldn''t be too complex (just change skills from stat+N to something like {stat/3}+N and reduce the costs for upping N by making a gentler slope to the highest upgrade cost)

Do you actually want to distribute this game? If so, you have to think about legal concerns.

So if I were you, I''d concentrate on developing your own game rules, and perhaps using existing systems for ideas. Personally though, I think that directly converting a PPRPG system to a computer RPG is a waste of the computer''s resources. There''s so much more you can do with a computer than you can with pen and paper.

For example, the dice mechanics used can be extremely complex, and action sequencing (aka intiative systems) can be much more complex whether you go the real-time route or turn-based route. Even character statistics can be much more complex, for example by having a statistic defined by more than one number or like how SpaceMaster did it, by having an "actual" score and a "potential" score" (the highest value that stat could obtain). And combat can be much more complex with its internal rules. For example, how many game systems factor in weapon mass/clumsiness into the initiative factor (a battle axe is very damaging, but the very reason it is damaging makes it slower and harder to recover the weapon for the next attack/defense)? How many games factor in weapon length to initiative (kicks are slower than punches, but since they have a longer reach, often they can reach an opponent as quickly as if you had punched)? How many games factor in weapon mass to account for how well it can parry or block another weapon (would you want to parry a battle axe with a dagger)? How many games factor in vector movements of firer and target to calculate a Delta Theta of the firer''s change in aim (if your target is moving in a straight line towards you, you don''t have to change your aim at all, but if he''s moving at right angles to your movement, then you have a huge Delta Theta in which you have to lead the aim of your weapon making it harder to hit)? All of this is stuff that becomes overkill for PPRPG''s because it bogs down gameplay...but not so for computer RPG''s.

quote:

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Original post by Dauntless
Do you actually want to distribute this game? If so, you have to think about legal concerns.

So if I were you, I''d concentrate on developing your own game rules, and perhaps using existing systems for ideas. Personally though, I think that directly converting a PPRPG system to a computer RPG is a waste of the computer''s resources. There''s so much more you can do with a computer than you can with pen and paper.

For example, the dice mechanics used can be extremely complex, and action sequencing (aka intiative systems) can be much more complex whether you go the real-time route or turn-based route. Even character statistics can be much more complex, for example by having a statistic defined by more than one number or like how SpaceMaster did it, by having an "actual" score and a "potential" score" (the highest value that stat could obtain). And combat can be much more complex with its internal rules. For example, how many game systems factor in weapon mass/clumsiness into the initiative factor (a battle axe is very damaging, but the very reason it is damaging makes it slower and harder to recover the weapon for the next attack/defense)? How many games factor in weapon length to initiative (kicks are slower than punches, but since they have a longer reach, often they can reach an opponent as quickly as if you had punched)? How many games factor in weapon mass to account for how well it can parry or block another weapon (would you want to parry a battle axe with a dagger)? How many games factor in vector movements of firer and target to calculate a Delta Theta of the firer''s change in aim (if your target is moving in a straight line towards you, you don''t have to change your aim at all, but if he''s moving at right angles to your movement, then you have a huge Delta Theta in which you have to lead the aim of your weapon making it harder to hit)? All of this is stuff that becomes overkill for PPRPG''s because it bogs down gameplay...but not so for computer RPG''s.

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Its not just and Pen Paper games that don''t include those detials I don''t know a single computer rpg that does.

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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

Hi all!

Here's my game that I'm working on. Please view and comment. I am placing this message here instead of the announcements forum is because I'd like to invite some design comments.





Download alpha001.zip

Download alpha002.zip (Aiming is radomised)

TechnoGoth, you hit the nail on the head with your first reply!

"It might be an interesting project if your willing to undertake the effort. To create a shadowrun engine that includes all the rules. But loads the acutal game data from a seperate data file. That way you could also release an editor to allow the user to create there own shadowrun adventures. Let them design maps, insert events, quests. sort of like rpg maker but for shadowrun."

This is exactly what I'm trying to do. I've got a fair bit of coding to complete the game and a lot of tweaking to make the game any fun. Any comments on implementing the shadowrun system would be most appreciated. I haven't got any specific questions as I'm still working on a lot of basic code but I'm about to implent shadowrun rules very soon.

The project began as a clone of xcom but since there aren't any spelled out game rules to follow I'm going to try and implement another game system such as shadowrun.

Anyway, the code is far from finished but I've been working so long by myself that I thought I'd display it a little.

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Today, is a good day to code.

[edited by - BinhNguyen on January 13, 2004 5:52:58 AM]

[edited by - BinhNguyen on January 13, 2004 5:56:05 AM]

[edited by - BinhNguyen on January 13, 2004 6:03:52 AM]

[edited by - BinhNguyen on January 14, 2004 7:42:15 PM]

I advice AGAINST using a Pen & Paper set of rules in a Computer RPG.
Many P&P RPG rules are simplified for players to be able to compute results quickly and irrealistic, while the computer can be much more accurate and produce better results.

Dungeon Siege uses a kind of Skill Based approach that''s rather nice and not annoying. (Although the game in itself is too much hack&slash for me)


-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

Blood bowl :o)

I agree, don''t use any PNP rules. Those are designed for dice-chugging and calculator free math. When you get down to the PC, random functions in general are designed to be evenly distributed, where as dice systems tend to be weighted towards a central number (side effect due to addition of die faces). Quickly, heres the likely hood of a 2d6 system: (these chances are how many are then in a total of 36 possible rolles)

  2    3     4    5     6     7     8     9   10   11   12------------------------------------------------------------  1    2     3    4     5     6     5     4    3    2    12.7% 5.5% 8.3% 11.1% 13.8% 16.6% 13.8% 11.1% 8.3% 5.5% 2.7% 

So, you can see that 7 is the most likely roll. On 3d6 systems, 10 is the most likely roll, so Gurps is designed around the number 10.

Rather then worrying about the specifics of the skill system, figure out what the game would have first, then design the rules to fit the game you want. Something like a Lockpicking skill would be useless if you never have a lock in the game that needs picking. Or for that matter, "Seduction+3"... Whats that all about. :D