quote: Original post by johnny carmackle
I simply say you have a bad attitude,not because you have proven anything that i''ve said is wrong,but are stating things,that you cannot prove are true or here yet,or not happening yet,and are trying hard to use an ''intimidation'' technique,in getting your point across,and convive everybody that you are right.(noted in many of your reply''s in this post and the other c++ post).

I gave everyone the links where you can download the C++ engine and the C# port and run them for benchmarks. I also mentioned UOX (C++) and it''s C# rewrite RunUO and the performance changes.

Just because you didn''t pay attention or check it out does not mean I have not proved anything.

quote:
scared of C#.. what are you talking about? Lol.

That was actually a quote from a guy at work. Back when our whole team switched from C++ to C# development, a guy from the other team had the same view. "C# is slow, it will never be used, C++ for life!"... then after he had to conform and start using the language, he actually started really liking writing in managed code. When asked again he said he was scared of C# because he thought as a developer he was losing control, that he would lose his job if he couldn''t or refused to learn C# (which he would have), etc. So I figured it was a fitting line for this thread, sorry if I''m wrong.

quote:
No you didn''t,but i''m guessing from your replies,that you don''t work in pro Game Dev.

ah.. another one of those magic post readers that can analyze people''s posts and decide exactly where they work and what they do. Marvelous.

You see I have a totally different attitude at work compared to these boards. At work I''ll just tell the guys.. guess what, use C# or go home.. and so it doesn''t matter what lies and garbage they''ve been fed about the language =] On this site I hate to see uninformed or new guys getting fed incorrect information, so all I do is try to help out.

If you would actually read my posts you would notice that through the whole thread I stated THERE IS NO ONE LANGUAGE FOR EVERY APPLICATION/PLATFORM. If you think C++ is the major language used in the corporate world you are about to learn something new if you ever work in professional development... because it isn''t. All I state is that people should look at the problem and find the right tools to use to solve that problem. Whether that be C++, C#, Java, etc.

quote:
well,in a year or so come back to me,then.ok?

Sure thing. I have to guide my team to build applications that work today as well as get all the benefits of tomorrow.

Although I won''t laugh, make fun of people, or try to sound like a god saying "I told you so". On the contrary, I remember when C++ was a young language and TONS of developers laughed at it''s slow speed... then I had to learn it later on while the people that learned new languages to add to their toolbox passed me by. It was a life lesson learned that I''d never repeat =]

quote: Original post by Imperil
Microsoft has already stated that for anybody not in the industry as a professional than C# is definately the route to follow.

They also stated that many of the ISVs will be using C# for future games, as well as many companies are using C# exclusively for tools at the current time.

They have already stated this multiple times.

So basically if im a user that is not in the industry as a professional, then C# is what I should do, by this do you mean:
Sense your not a professional and your just some kid learn C# if you plan to go into industry and become a professional learn C++ a bit more would be great to clarify

I'd like to know sense, I plan on going into the industry eventually and ive done C++ for 5 years now; and in a few more months I shall be in college; would be great to get a head start; it also makes me wonder why my friend who has worked for EA games for 6 years now said to continue using C/C++; but then again he did state the gaming industry is currently "changing" so yea.

[edited by - DevLiquidKnight on January 15, 2004 7:27:38 PM]

quote: Original post by DevLiquidKnight

quote: Original post by Imperil
Microsoft has already stated that for anybody not in the industry as a professional than C# is definately the route to follow.

They also stated that many of the ISVs will be using C# for future games, as well as many companies are using C# exclusively for tools at the current time.

They have already stated this multiple times.

So basically if im a user that is not in the industry as a professional, then C# is what I should do, by this do you mean:
Sense your not a professional and your just some kid learn C# if you plan to go into industry and become a professional learn C++ a bit more would be great to clarify

If you are just some kid that wants to play around for fun than use C#.

If you want to get into serious development work I ALWAYS advice to learn C++. It is a staple language that works on literally almost every device.

Also I find knowing how to manage memory, structure an application without pure type-safety, track errors, etc VERY vital to programming, and C++ gives you all of that.

As for Windows application development, yes the majority will be done on C# in the future if you are coding for Longhorn.

For games? Who knows? .. remember back when everyone said they would never code games for Windows because it would be too slow, they would continue to use DOS. What are you coding for now?

Only time will tell what the future of game development is. Who knows.. Microsoft and myself might be 100% wrong, it might stay C++ for Windows development due to easy cross-platform code to consoles, although it might go pure C#.

quote:
I'd like to know sense, I plan on going into the industry eventually and ive done C++ for 5 years now; and in a few more months I shall be in college; would be great to get a head start; it also makes me wonder why my friend who has worked for EA games for 6 years now said to continue using C/C++; but then again he did state the gaming industry is currently "changing" so yea.

The industry has little to do with languages. Knowing C/C++ are a given, and in some cases Java and C#. I mean there is no right or wrong.. the more languages you learn the more you have to put in your toolbox. Do you think you start out as a lead engine designer? nope.. most likely you'll end up making tools after a stint in QA, etc. Tools will most likely ALWAYS be developed in C# for now on.

Development is based on design, structure, management, mathematics, physics... it really has little to do with programming language.


[edited by - Imperil on January 15, 2004 7:40:10 PM]

Thanks for your calarification on that Imperil just because I feel like im bored and I feel as if C++ code for me is getting to be more of a routine do you have a recommendatation of a C# compiler I know there is one for the SDK and I heard about sharpdevelop but I tried it and it wouldnt let me edit some of the things I wanted it kept rewriting my code >.< maybe thats how it is or somthing :/ particularly it wasnt allowing me to make my own functions


Evil Microsoft and there influences :/ I reallly dont want to have to go buy a C# compiler now :/ i just purachased C++ oh well either way im happy

[edited by - DevLiquidKnight on January 15, 2004 7:41:12 PM]

quote: Original post by DevLiquidKnight
Thanks for your calarification on that Imperil just because I feel like im bored and I feel as if C++ code for me is getting to be more of a routine do you have a recommendatation of a C# compiler I know there is one for the SDK and I heard about sharpdevelop but I tried it and it wouldnt let me edit some of the things I wanted it kept rewriting my code >.< maybe thats how it is or somthing :/ particularly it wasnt allowing me to make my own functions

Well the only two IDE's that I have experience with are Visual Studio .NET (or C#.NET), and SharpDevelop. I am unsure of the exact problem you ran into with SharpDevelop because I have not experienced that myself.

It is always good to know both. If you want into the industry and especially EA I would most likely say stick with C/C++. The large studios know that consoles are where the money is, and none of them will be C#. Although my guess is that 90% or more of the tools that will be created will be done in C#.

Why not code your core games in C++ and then create the tools, servers, scripting languages, etc in C#?

Or do like I did and dive right in doing everything in C#. Once I complete this latest project I am working on at home I will analyze the performance/productivity and decide if I will default back to C++ for games, C# for tools/servers, or if I will stick with what I'm currently doing =]


EDIT: Don't buy a C# compiler! At least not until you are sure you want to use the language!

I would grab SharpDevelop and give it another try. The Microsoft CSC.exe C# compiler is with the .NET SDK download for free! You can rough it with notepad if you really have to =]

[edited by - Imperil on January 15, 2004 7:45:20 PM]

Try C#Builder instead of SharpDevelop. You can d/l it free off www.borland.com

quote:
EDIT: Don''t buy a C# compiler! At least not until you are sure you want to use the language!

Ahem. I believe you mean IDE. There is only one C# compiler, which is provided for download, FREE! (well two if you really want to count mono, but that''s free too)

The one neat thing I liked about C# was the ablity it had like a way to "sign" your asm code inside the code itself which was alot more easier then using signcode.exe less clicking

[edited by - DevLiquidKnight on January 15, 2004 8:13:47 PM]

quote: Original post by wyrd
Try C#Builder instead of SharpDevelop. You can d/l it free off www.borland.com

quote:
EDIT: Don't buy a C# compiler! At least not until you are sure you want to use the language!

Ahem. I believe you mean IDE. There is only one C# compiler, which is provided for download, FREE! (well two if you really want to count mono, but that's free too)

lol yep I meant compiler =]

and I haven't tried C#Builder is it good? I haven't used it at all but would grab it and give it a try if it is. I like to experiment with new things from time to time.

[edited by - Imperil on January 15, 2004 8:29:16 PM]