Base 3 computers

Your logic is borked. A byte would have 6561 possible values.

Oh and reason being: 2^8=256, 3^8=6561

[edited by - smart_idiot on January 23, 2004 11:40:03 PM]

Why not base 16?

16^16 * 16

295147905179352825856 possible values

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And why not implement that pi compression algorithm?

You know, 295147905179352825856 possible values isn''t much better than 6 bytes.

quote:

---

Original post by smart_idiot
You know, 295147905179352825856 possible values isn''t much better than 6 bytes.

---

So a base 16 computer would have a 6:1 compression ratio built in!

Its a tad difficult to run a base 3 computer system when transistors are either ON or they''re OFF...

---------------------------------------------------
laziness is the foundation of efficiency
retrospiral.net | llamas! | megatokyo | gamedev.net | google

no, seriously, if computers were based on a base 3 system, would the architecture still have 8 bits to a byte or would it be redesigned? Anyway,if not, would it still make a profound difference?

I think such a change would require a fundamental change in computer architecture. You''d need to redesign all your logic gates to handle three possibilities. Then you''d have to find a reliable way to store those three possibilities in hardware. Basically, it''d be like dropping your car into first gear while cruising the freeway at 70 mph.

A byte, I would imagine, would probably have 9 or perhaps 27 bits. I seriously doubt there would be any sort of profound difference in the architecture of a computer.... just the laws of physics.

---------------------------------------------------
laziness is the foundation of efficiency
retrospiral.net | llamas! | megatokyo | gamedev.net | google

Well, the only real reasons I can see that we use binary is that it''s the most reliable and it makes the logic easier. If those were improved, I don''t see why we wouldn''t want to make the change (except for throwing out all the current computer technology.)

quote:

---

Original post by zer0wolf
Its a tad difficult to run a base 3 computer system when transistors are either ON or they''re OFF...

---

It is possible to make a computer of (potentially) any base, and I believe some people have done so, but it is more difficult. Binary can be represented in on and off, which is natural for electricity. For anything higher than base two, you have to look at the voltage of whats being inputted, and it wouldn''t be hard for those to get a little off and completly ruin everything. As mentioned, modern electronics are already made in a way that base two is more natural, and it wouldn''t be worth it to challenge that. Keep in mind you couldn''t easily store things on magnetic discs (hard drives) in base three because you only have north and south orientation, we''d have to create a new way to store things. Even CDs wouldn''t work that great, they work because when there isn''t an impression it reflects the light back, when there is it doesn''t (or vice versa, not sure). We''d have to have two receptors, and see which if either got the signal. And thats just base three, why not go for something like 8 so it was worth the work put in?

That''s what I was trying to get at. Things like transistors and microchips would be completely moot when going to base 3. I suspect a real change in that direction would need to throw out electricity even. You''d need something that could reliably be kept in one of three possible states. With that stated, it could easily be better to make the switch to something other than base 3. As long as you can be pretty certain it will keep its state and that you''ll be able to check the state and change it as necessary, it''s a good candidate regardless of how many states are involved.

Yeh, I dont think you know how computers work. In theory, this method works, but in practice computers have two states: ON or OFF (zero or one, thus base-two math.)

Instead of trying to figure out how somthing should be implemented, try figuring out how to MAKE the theory implement-ABLE. Perhaps, if there is some sort of electrinic device that can be in three states.

This leads to the fact that all calculations are done with binary logic. In other words, AND OR & XOR of binary numbers.
An AND operation looks like so:

0101 1100
1100 1101
---------
0100 1101 

Now think, how would that look in base-3 ?

The problem wouldn''t be hardware, it would be mediums. Maintaining three distinct states on the scale computers work on isn''t much harder than maintaining two. The logic would have to be rethought, but it could be done.

The thing is, why? We have binary logic figured out so completely that there is no real need to research trinary [or greater] systems except memory space. And transistors are cheap, very little would be saved in the hardware.

Harddrives could benefit from such a change, but that''s more dificult to achieve. Any solution would probably be more expensive to implement than what is already in place. So again, there is no appeal.

The way electronics work won''t change unless some sort of phenomenal advancement is made in some area. The type of thing that will make transistors look like vacuum tubes in 50 years.

CM

quote:

---

Original post by aftermath
Yeh, I dont think you know how computers work. In theory, this method works, but in practice computers have two states: ON or OFF (zero or one, thus base-two math.)

Instead of trying to figure out how somthing should be implemented, try figuring out how to MAKE the theory implement-ABLE. Perhaps, if there is some sort of electrinic device that can be in three states.

This leads to the fact that all calculations are done with binary logic. In other words, AND OR & XOR of binary numbers.
An AND operation looks like so:

0101 1100
1100 1101
---------
0100 1101  

Now think, how would that look in base-3 ?

---

You''re being too closed minded. In a base-3 system AND, OR, and NOT [newsflash, XOR is not a fundemental binary operator] probably wouldn''t be the building blocks the circuitry is built off of. So rather than asking what AND would look like in base-3 computer, you should be asking a more fundemental question: how will data be manipulated in a base-3 computer? The answer to that, of course, depends entirely on how the system is implemented, so it is useless to answer at this point.

CM

quote:

---

Original post by Conner McCloud
The way electronics work won''t change unless some sort of phenomenal advancement is made in some area. The type of thing that will make transistors look like vacuum tubes in 50 years.

---

I think the key lies in the technology that allows the
freezing of light.

Yes, you read that right.

Scientists have been able to freeze a beam of light and
make it stationary for about
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 second.

If they can freeze it indefinitely, then the light can be
used for storage, instead of the magnetic device we use now.

Lights with different wavelengths can be used to represent
different values. So maybe the 7 rainbow colors and black
(absense of light) to represent 8 values (octonary?).

Maybe in 50 years, this can be achieved.

---

Kami no Itte ga ore ni zettai naru!

Russia claimed at one time to have built a Trinary computer. The advantage is that a trinary bit holds more info then a binary bit.

There are two reasons it hasn''t become popular.

1. Designing On / off is much simplier then Off, On, On2. A switch is easier to design then a variable control. If its off, just don''t send power.

Look at And binary
On On - send!
On off -no
off on - no
off off - no

and And Trinary
On2 On2 - send
On On - send
off On2 - no
off on - no
On2 off - no
.
.

Much more complex.

2. Off + On2 = on. Yep. If we''re switching from off to On2, and the clock decides to record inbetween the switch, we get On. A Designer has to be very careful to avoid that.

These two reasons are enough to keep trinary and above computers out of normal polite computing society.

quote:

---

Original post by Conner McCloud

quote:

---

Original post by aftermath
Yeh, I dont think you know how computers work. In theory, this method works, but in practice computers have two states: ON or OFF (zero or one, thus base-two math.)

Instead of trying to figure out how somthing should be implemented, try figuring out how to MAKE the theory implement-ABLE. Perhaps, if there is some sort of electrinic device that can be in three states.

This leads to the fact that all calculations are done with binary logic. In other words, AND OR & XOR of binary numbers.
An AND operation looks like so:

0101 1100
1100 1101
---------
0100 1101   

Now think, how would that look in base-3 ?

---

You''re being too closed minded. In a base-3 system AND, OR, and NOT [newsflash, XOR is not a fundemental binary operator] probably wouldn''t be the building blocks the circuitry is built off of. So rather than asking what AND would look like in base-3 computer, you should be asking a more fundemental question: how will data be manipulated in a base-3 computer? The answer to that, of course, depends entirely on how the system is implemented, so it is useless to answer at this point.

CM

---

actually, XOR and NAND are the fundamental logic operations, because they are the easiest to build with transistors. Don''t even need a NOT, just XOR and NAND.

Personally, I think a trinary system would be a 3 dimensional computer. Instead of choices being "on or off", it would by "x-axis, y-axis, or z-axis". Logic gates might be arranged in a 3D cubical grid (or some other topology). This might actually be an important step towards electronic brains, simulating the interaction of neurons better.