In need of the "Good"

Well, I know games often give Paladins (holy knights) supernatural abilities. I also think there are different classifications of angels (edit: such as archangels, cherubim, seraphim). Then there are leprechauns, gnomes, pixies, etc., but they're usually more mischevious than good, or else they help those who help them. I suppose Centaurs are generally good. Elves (of the tiny sort that cobble shoes and such) are good on the whole. If you were willing to delve into Greek/Roman mythology, I'm sure you could come up with something there. Hmmm....aren't the "good guys" in most mythology/literature either kings, warriors, etc?

And you could always have good demons, but I don't think that falls into the established mythology you're looking for.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not doing any of the standard "fantasy" stuff. So there's no Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins...or so on. Also, I'm not doing Fairy Tale fantasy...so that means no gnomes, fairies, leprechauns, etc.

I'm trying to stay within fictional realm similar to what you would find within Bram Stoker's "Dracula", "The Wolf Man", or a good ol' "Night of the Living Dead". Every character in my world is human (or at least they start that way). But some have died and come back (zombies, vampires)...or transformed (werewolf).

In the common stories...good is always normal, and evil is always different. And I dont get why there is no "cliche" altered human that is inherently good (well, except for angels). In other words....why is the "cool" stuff always evil?

Although, I understand that the nature of Good is about sacrafice. The idea being that you work hard with what you've got....or else take the easy path into evil. But in my game....if everyone starts out normal...and has the choice of becomming a cool evil Werewolf, or remain a normal good human...everyone will go evil.

Well, you could make the choice of remaining human have more subtle benefits, i.e. it pays over time, but you get the powers immediately from being evil. And you could create a way to "punish" the player later in the game for taking the easy path.

A quick search with google brought up this:
Types of angels
Might be interesting for you...

What do the two different groups (good and evil) do? fight it out? If so, maybe the "good" side can have wizards, exorcists, vampire hunters, and demon hunters. In my opinions angels are the only "good" ones because they tolerate other forms of existance, demon hunters and such are filled with vengence.

The good side is supposed to forgive and turn the "bad" people good instead of killing them. So this might not help in a game...

I was instantly thinking about Paladins. But you can come up with other clerical types of standard rpgs. priests, monks, druids, shamans. Sure, they can be neutral/evil too, but to have a counterpart to werewolves and such, you need to have these classes good only.
I also could imagine a kind of "vampire hunter" (buffy comes in mind) as the good guys.

As you've said, going with that type of theme, the badguys are supernatural, but the goodguys are just regular humans. This is because they are horror stories, and so the audience is supposed to identify with the goodguys for maximal effect - hence keeping them human. I'd say your 'neutral' in these sort of settings are really only ever present as helpless victims, or people who dont actually interact with the 'evil' at all. Everything else is either the evil (as you've said some kind of supernatural 'demon'), or 'good,' ie. the hero, who is really just a skilled human, or may have some kind of healing powers.

The hardest part of making the good guys anything but normal is that as soon as the good guy becomes anything but normal people will fear them. If a bloke walks into a bar with wings poking out his back, people are going to freak, and hence he will probably end up being classed as evil. Its kinda always been like that….normal is good, and anything else is evil.

But, to give some examples anyway, and keeping with the 'fictional realm' setting, what about this:

++Good guys++

Witch hunter: Has all sorts of gadgets, and is more like an inventor.

Darkness ward: Is adept at deflecting the power of the darkness, but this comes at a cost to the human body. Is usually scarred and has burns on their hands, making them look like they have been in a terrible accident.

Alters: Through a lifetime of devotion, and many acts of dedication, Alters have been blessed with wings. These can be easily hidden most of the time. In great times of need, Alters can turn their entire bodies into what some think are 'Angels'.


Is this the kind of stuff you meant?

From films, you could try : The Crow, Blade, Jedis and the karate kid (ok, just kidding).

mermaids? Batman?

Everyone else is right - films would be boring if the good guy was some powerful thing beating up lots of normal baddies. It has to be man overcoming the odds, so that you can relate to it.

Paladins, however (holy knights in shining armour) were the first thing that occurred to me. You can have different orders of knights. I see there are others in agreement. Unless a were wolf can bite through a chain mail coif it might find it has a big silver sword to chew on. Silver chain mail would be a bit unsporting though ;)

how about a creature of pure light?

Very good everyone, thank you much.

As I wrote earlier, I began to lead myself to think that keeping these characters human would be necessary in order to retain the identity of "Good". And you all have shown me now that is definately true.

Kazgoroth, that's a good way to look at it. That the Neutrals are fairly helpless in combatting Evil, and it takes the special abilities of a Good person to do so.

Estok, I know often that true Good is thought of as totally forgiving pacifists. And while maybe that could be the ideal example, I think it's fair to call people "Good" who go out fighting off Evil for the betterment of society. Also, I'm quite sure that most Evil would rather be killed than be "converted" into doing good. Honestly, death is the kinder and more fair of the two choices.

It is the nature of Good and Evil to constantly battle in order to maintain a balance. Each side seeks domination...though the world would most likely be doomed if either side won entirely.

OmniBrain, boolean, Squirm, I am thinking now that Paladin-type characters are the way to go. Ordinary humans, but with some "Divine" powers. I could perhaps make that a broad "Category" type...with specialties such as "Vampire Hunter" within it. Very good thinking, and those are some interesting ideas, boolean.

Luctus, That sounds like a possibility for a type of angel.

grbrg, thank you for the list. It may come in handy.

Ferrik Bromyde, A good idea. I'd considered it earlier and already have a few ideas for something along those lines.

I can only thing of two things.

How about Saints? You'd have to make it more than just a title, so you'd have to invent your own supernatural abilities for this one.

Also, Spirits or Ghosts. You seemed to be leaning in the direction of "undeadness" with your baddie ideas. The undead are pretty much just souless bodies, right? How about bodyless souls for the other direction?

Vampires, Werewolves, or Zombies

Perhaps different styles of hunters?
A Werewolf hunter should have gear that can easily take out
werewolves. They can also have gear that can take out vampires
and zombies, but it should be harder to do. Likewise, a vampire-
hunter should have gear that can take out vampires, but have
minimal werewolf and zombie-hunting takeout ability. Same with
Zombies, I suppose...although, I've never thought of zombies in
most movies to be especially tough to kill. 28 Days Later is an
exception.

-Hyatus
"And we all float on..."

Question:
When you have jobs that are designed to be the rival of another job, won't you see the same kind of battles all the time? (like a vampire hunter only try to fight a vampire and nothing else) That would be kind of boring.

To put the combat into perspective...the game is a 3rd-person action based multiplayer. So, total freedom and control of attacks...nothing like RPG combat.

With that said...I don't see how Vampire vs. Hunter combat would ever be any less interesting or engaging than what you'd find in any other PvP action-based game. Each player has their own set of abilties, and any number of weapons or attacks to choose from. Also, environment type plays a role...where each character may find themselves at an advantage or disadvantage.

Also, Vampires would be able to attack anyone they wanted. And a Vampire Hunter would be an effective death dealer in general...but most suited for taking out Vampires.

Hyatus, my Zombies aren't stealthy like Vampires or savagely strong like Werewolves...but they are very durable, and will keep coming even with lost limbs and so on. Also remember, my story takes place in the 1700's, most characters may have only a pistol (with limited shots) and a rapier. At best, some would have a rifle ... but not the shotguns we're used to seeing in the movies.

Brien Shrimp, I have given thought to Spirits and Ghosts, and I think there's a place for them...but I'm not sure exactly where yet. I'd kinda like to have fun and alter the traditional manner of dealing with "death" in games.

Saints will almost definately be one of the types of Good.

There's only one problem I can see in this and that is the tendancy of the masses to be evil... I know I would :)

SO you may have to consider implementing a device to draw more to good to even it out. Someone mention evil could gain their powers more quickly and definately more suddenly at the beginning, but in the long term good will be more powerful.

Another problem is that evil things are generally less-than-human because it makes them easier to kill without remorse. So when the hero kills a dozen monsters that used to be people, he's doing them a favor, and thus still good. Good guys get to keep their free will and their reason, while bad guys are reduced to the status of beasts. Hence fewer "good guy" transformations. Hrm...

Saying this without any knowledge whatsoever of your game, I'd submit that simply giving them superpowers would be enough. After all, what does a player get out of being a werewolf? An ass-kicking player model, the ability to devour peasants, and recognizability. So, when a player becomes a Paladin, or a Shaolin, or something, give them a sweet outfit, some decent super-human powers, and let other players recognize them by either their uniform or perhaps some other obvious property, like a glow or something.

I just read the Iliad, and one of my favorite parts was when Diomed got beefed up by the gods. His wounds healed, his body become stronger and faster, and Homer said something to the effect that he burned with a raging fire. Have you read "Murder Mysteries" by Niel Gaiman? When the characters are infused with divine purpose, they levitate off the ground and glow. In some cases, they burst into flames or shoot beams of radiance. They're angels, but you could use similar effect on humans.

Or just make up a bunch of stuff. Heck, you could have people turning into genies, or golems, or any number of other things, and then just attribute then with various properties of goodness. In Plato's Republic, he talks about how people of various merits are derived from different metals. He was talking about social stratification, but if you just have characters be humans made of bronze or silver or mercury, you could get great superpowers and have them be obviously better than average without making them angels.

I have not read "Murder Mysteries", but I have read "Neverwhere" by him (which had an angel too).

You say good things Mr. Carnage. That bit about the Divine "Beefing" of good guys sounds like a fairly solid angle. But although while inspired, I think the metal thing is best left to Plato.

Valkyr, I too have the feeling that many if not most people will be drawn to evil (or, "The Dark Side!") for the sheer coolness of it. But I have a few ideas to keep the numbers in check...

The big one is that if a 'monster' is killed by its bane (Vampire-Steak through heart, Werefolf-silver, Zombie-exorcism(?)) then it dies outright, and reverts to its original normal human self.

The 2nd is that monsters are slaves to their desires. Vampire needs blood every so often. Werewolf, meat. And Zombies..."Braaaiinns!!!". While these probably wouldn't be too difficult to acquire, the player would always feel the pressure. Death by lack of these would result in the same as above.

Thanks to everyone for your help. I'm sorry I haven't told you more about my game...espcially *what* it really is...but that'd probably require a decent bit of typing. And sometimes I prefer some secrecy. :)

[Edited by - Veovis on June 25, 2004 12:10:03 PM]

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