to those that said java couldn't hack it

Java is as good as C or C++, that's sure.

Hope this thread won't start a new language war...

Anybody tried the demo? It's obvious from that little press release that they really don't have a clue, so I hope for their sake that the game itself doesn't disappoint.

It's not bad. I think it should have run better on my video card, though, but my card is (now) ancient. Also the text in the UI didn't show correctly. But I managed to get a game up and running, at about 20-40fps on my Geforce 440mx.

Could be my system.. but the movement/firing seemed pretty sluggish, even at relatively high framerates.

If it's any example of what CAN be done with Java... then I myself am excited.

Quote:

Original post by Ronin Magus It's not bad. I think it should have run better on my video card, though, but my card is (now) ancient. Also the text in the UI didn't show correctly. But I managed to get a game up and running, at about 20-40fps on my Geforce 440mx. Could be my system.. but the movement/firing seemed pretty sluggish, even at relatively high framerates. If it's any example of what CAN be done with Java... then I myself am excited.

I saw a quake 3 clone in java that ran the quake maps with dynamic lighting at over 150fps (no sound) on my p4 2.4, 768 RDRAM, Radeon 9800pro.

Are Java apps being JIT compiled yet? I haven't been keeping up.

capn: keep this in mind (im assuming it was squareheads) it was running at a much lower res than all the benchmarks that go OMG QUAKE3 AT 200 fps!!!!!! so there still is an obvious speed difference (though squareheads isnt complete yet)
-Dan

Arse, their menu system is totally non-intuitive, I havn't a clue how to actually start a game (here a hint, error dialogs are more helpful than an app that sits there and ignores your clicking on 'start game').

All I have to say is that they really like to brag up their real-time shadows all over the place. Its like they think they were the first to do it or something :P

This game really makes a poor showing for Java. I can't even get the thing to run. The connection always times out, and then the console says that "someone made a poo poo..." Hardly what I'd expect for a public release of a game. Anyway, it isn't Java's fault that I can't play the demo, but it still makes it look bad.

karg

I've seen better java stuff than this. I really like Java alot, except for the way they handle exceptions. When doing inheritance, and inheriting down a long chain, the number of exceptions you have to put in the list often gets quite huge. It was a good idea, but it didn't work. They should change that in the next release of java.

Well, unfortunately, all the nice graphics effects they have are not handled by Java, they are handled by OpenGL. I don't think OpenGL is in Java byte code.

Just because java is a part of the program, doesn't really mean too much. Java isn't bad until you start asking for speed, especially when it comes to interfaces and such. In this case, that part seems to be done with OpenGL though. I've still yet to see something to change my mind that was done totally in java.

Quote:

Original post by Karg This game really makes a poor showing for Java. I can't even get the thing to run. The connection always times out, and then the console says that "someone made a poo poo..." Hardly what I'd expect for a public release of a game. Anyway, it isn't Java's fault that I can't play the demo, but it still makes it look bad.

They said over on the javagaming.org forums that beta was perhaps the wrong term and that this is more of an early tech-demo. They said they will release the next beta version at the end of the summer.

Quote:

Original post by Pik Just because java is a part of the program, doesn't really mean too much. Java isn't bad until you start asking for speed, especially when it comes to interfaces and such. In this case, that part seems to be done with OpenGL though. I've still yet to see something to change my mind that was done totally in java.

Get real. You expect someone to rewrite OpenGL in Java? Let;s see, I wonder what percentage of the drivers are coded in assembly. That would mean that C++ games aren't really C++ games of course, because of the assembly bits. I'll resist the urge to comment on the rest of the foolishness in this paragraph.

Quote:

Get real. You expect someone to rewrite OpenGL in Java? Let;s see, I wonder what percentage of the drivers are coded in assembly. That would mean that C++ games aren't really C++ games of course, because of the assembly bits. I'll resist the urge to comment on the rest of the foolishness in this paragraph.

I didn't say a thing about rewriting OpenGL in Java, but there are Java 3D graphics libraries now that you mention it. I believe you are showing more than a bit of foolishness and childishness. You must a java programmer, and can't have someone talk about your favorite language...
Also, I never mentioned C++ or anything else. I'm waiting to see a purely Java program, and don't even try to get into the "Oh, but this is really assembly, so anything works" because that is just stupid.

Well there was a few native DLL's which the installer put in the game directory. Honestly I was disapointed with the demo, java really is better than what this demo shows. Personally I'd never use java in a performance critical application but it has it's uses in the cross platform and security department. I think java perfectly fulfills it's intended purpose. This isn't it.

Q3 spends about 70% of it's time in the OGL driver. Other games are simillar. It doesn't matter if the rest is written in any language, it's OGL and the driver doing the heavy lifting. So lets not start throwing around fallicies to attack Java.

Check out http://openmind.sf.net it's kinda neat.

IIRC, Sun's JVM has been doing JIT for some time now.

Quote:

Original post by fodd3r SNIP Check out http://openmind.sf.net it's kinda neat.

empty dir

Quote:

Original post by rohde Quote: Original post by fodd3r SNIP Check out http://openmind.sf.net it's kinda neat. empty dir

BEHOLD, The Power of Java! Think you could do something like that in C/C++? I think not [wink]

He probably meant open-mind. And if not, he should have, because it's pretty cool.

CM

Grr.. still waiting for the 15 meg JRE to finish downloading and installing. What exactly makes people think that Java is practical for commercial applications? 99% of people would not go through the time of installing and setting up the JRE. It would be like trying to make a commercial C# application before Longhorn comes out.