The European Dream?

I'll have to pick that book up, it seems interesting.

I like how your "Im with terrist" avatar points at "The European Dream".

What actually *is* "The American Dream"?

...the average 'Australian Dream' seems to be to buy a quarter acre block in the suburbs, get a Commodore (or a Falcon, depending on whether you're a wog or a bogan), and have a barbie out the back. It's freakin' frightening flying over Perth, just identical bloody ticky-tacky houses as far as the eye can see. :(

+ 6 weeks per year holiday in Europe? *packs bags*
Average commute is a little high, though, unless they mean 19 minutes in total. /smug_inner_city_bastard ;)

You think 19 minutes one way is a lot!?! Where do you work, the kitchen in your house?

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Original post by fractoid depending on whether you're a wog or a bogan have a barbie out the back. It's freakin' frightening flying over Perth bloody ticky-tacky houses

A who in the what now.

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Original post by fractoid The average 'Australian Dream' seems to be to buy a quarter acre block in the suburbs, get a Commodore , and have a barbie out the back.

That pretty much sums it up [smile]

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Original post by Witchcraven I like how your "Im with terrist" avatar points at "The European Dream".

My what a silly thing to say...

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Original post by fractoid What actually *is* "The American Dream"?

Historically speaking, it's the freedom of speech and movement and the prospect of becoming the next big star from the state of being a farm boy.

I personally have never been to the US, but I've heard the figures LessBread posted over and over again and it seems to me that America is falling apart. Not in a direct sense, but in the sense that they don't have proper leadership (ask yourself: will Bush pull the country out of 'the international gutter' it is in right now; will Kerry do that?) and it seems to me these elections, which ever way they go, are about aspiration to power anyway, not the urge to lead a large country well. I myself was eluded by the American Dream a few years back. Lately, I'm not sure whether that is the case. I'd probably pick Paris over New York or LA any time, were it not for the sucky weather during winter time.

While the European Dream seems to be a good standard of living for everybody, the American Dream is much less equalitarian, in that it seems to promise global fame and fortunate to a select few...

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Original post by Salsa Quote: Original post by fractoid depending on whether you're a wog or a bogan have a barbie out the back. It's freakin' frightening flying over Perth bloody ticky-tacky houses A who in the what now.

Maaaaaate!
yes I know I came across as more aussie in that little rant than usual... I think. ;)

Witchcraven: I live walking distance from the city centre, and work about 7km away. Most of that 7km is along a 100km/h freeway - my record is about 9 minutes home to work.

boolean: yep [roll]

Crispy: thanks... so the American dream is to be king of the hill, whereas the European dream is more to make the hill into a tabletop where it's good for everyone? Sounds about right...

Where did he get the six week vacation number? EU regulation stipulates that people get at least four weeks unless you waive it in your contract. Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who gets more than five -and many who have waived their right to four weeks.

I think the article is misleading in two senses. First, Europe isn't a nation, so comparing it to the US is incorrect. It should be compared to the NAFTA area or MERCOSUR. The other way in which it is misleading is that it is leading people's thoughts in the wrong direction (imo). I don't want the European Project (Chirac et al's euphamism for a Federalised European Superstate) and this article just about assumes Chirac will be successful.

Is the "Europen Union" considered a country yet?

I think when that happens then we'll talk about this European Dream. Other than that, I'd just like to say something informatively ignorant like "That author is full of shit." Maybe I'll save it for my next post.

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Though its landmass is half the size of the continental United States, its $10.5 trillion gross domestic product now eclipses the U.S. GDP

Europe is far more densely populated than the US, so that doesn't really surprise me.

This Wall Street opinion journal seemed to have a different take on the subject: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005242

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Europe vs. America Germany edges out Arkansas in per capita GDP. Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT The growing split between the U.S. and Europe has been much in the news, mostly on foreign policy. But less well understood is the gap in economic growth and standards of living. Now comes a European report that puts the American advantage in surprisingly stark relief. The study, "The EU vs. USA," was done by a pair of economists--Fredrik Bergstrom and Robert Gidehag--for the Swedish think tank Timbro. It found that if Europe were part of the U.S., only tiny Luxembourg could rival the richest of the 50 American states in gross domestic product per capita. Most European countries would rank below the U.S. average, as the chart below shows. The authors admit that man doesn't live by GDP alone, and that this measure misses output in the "black" economy, which is significant in Europe's high-tax states. GDP also overlooks "the value of leisure or a good environment" or the way prosperity is spread across a society. But a rising tide still lifts all boats, and U.S. GDP per capita was a whopping 32% higher than the EU average in 2000, and the gap hasn't closed since. It is so wide that if the U.S. economy had frozen in place at 2000 levels while Europe grew, the Continent would still require years to catch up. Ireland, which has lower tax burdens and fewer regulations than the rest of the EU, would be the first but only by 2005. Switzerland, not a member of the EU, and Britain would get there by 2010. But Germany and Spain would need until 2015, while Italy, Sweden and Portugal would have to wait until 2022. Higher GDP per capita allows the average American to spend about $9,700 more on consumption every year than the average European. So Yanks have by far more cars, TVs, computers and other modern goods. "Most Americans have a standard of living which the majority of Europeans will never come anywhere near," the Swedish study says. But what about equality? Well, the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has dropped to 12% from 22% since 1959. In 1999, 25% of American households were considered "low income," meaning they had an annual income of less than $25,000. If Sweden--the very model of a modern welfare state--were judged by the same standard, about 40% of its households would be considered low-income. In other words poverty is relative, and in the U.S. a large 45.9% of the "poor" own their homes, 72.8% have a car and almost 77% have air conditioning, which remains a luxury in most of Western Europe. The average living space for poor American households is 1,200 square feet. In Europe, the average space for all households, not just the poor, is 1,000 square feet. So what is Europe's problem? "The expansion of the public sector into overripe welfare states in large parts of Europe is and remains the best guess as to why our continent cannot measure up to our neighbor in the west," the authors write. In 1999, average EU tax revenues were more than 40% of GDP, and in some countries above 50%, compared with less than 30% for most of the U.S. We don't report this with any nationalist glee. The world needs a prosperous, growing Europe, and its relative economic decline is one reason for growing EU-American tension. A poorer Europe lacks the wealth to invest in defense, a fact that in turn affects the willingness of Europeans to join America in confronting global security threats. But at least all of this is a warning to U.S. politicians who want this country to go down the same welfare-state road to decline.

Here is the link to the study the article above makes reference to: http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdf

Be sure to look at the tables in the PDF in relations to consumtion, standard of living, per capita GDP, living space. The fact Europeans work less is just because they are lazy. They choose to work less.

Anyway, the "European Union" is much more than a free trade zone. In many ways it works like the US with a central government and state local governments. Many things are now decided in the EU and not on local governments.
The diference is that we still have "countries".

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Original post by Aaron71771 The fact Europeans work less is just because they are lazy.

...

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The fact Europeans work less is just because they are lazy. They choose to work less.

Lol Einstein... If i can have a good life working less why should i work more? So that i can "live to work" ?

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The fact Europeans work less is just because they are lazy. They choose to work less.

Whenever I see shit like this I have to remind myself of a poem called Desiderata, which has these lines in the first verse:

"Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story."

And then I'm OK again.

Jon


EDIT: I've just read the article Mr Ignorant posted above. Its so full of holes I cant be bothered picking it apart- the rest of you should read it for a chuckle or three..

The European Union is about to put an federal constitution and inbdeed there is talk about electing a president of EU.

And in Sweden there is 6 weeks vacation and we are slowly getting closer to 6 hour workdays.