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Ignorance.

Started by sicu Nov 1, 2004 at 4:46 AM 65 replies 4k views

Original Post

Nov 1, 2004 at 4:46 AM

So I was listening to the radio today. It was a swedish reporter in USA covering the election. He was talking to two people, one guy that have been in Iraq but was sent home after being injured. And a woman that just passed by. He asked them both what they thought about the war in Iraq. After a while they both started yelling and their conclusions was the following: Woman: - "What is your solution to stop the global terrorism? How would you stop the terrorists, the threat of this upcoming century? Put your head in the sand? Let me ask you this, when was the last time Europe was attacked by terrorists? What do you know about that? Wait and see until it happens to you, lets see if you will be neutral then. When was the last time you fought anything, did you fight on the beach in Normandie? Did you fight the nazis?" Soldier: - "It was european weapons that wounded me and killed some of my friends in Iraq. Neutral my ass. It's countries like Switzerland and Sweden that kills americans in Iraq. Its your weapons that terrorists use, you supply them." The bottom line is; - Europe have not seen war ever. - No countries in Europe fought in WW2. Except the germans. - Europe have never been attacked by terrorists. - Europe sells weapons to the terrorists so that they can kill americans. - Terrorism is a new threat. Now, what I want to know is; - Is these opinions common in USA? - Do americans learn any history about Europe (ETA, WW2, IRA etc)? - Do americans learn that it was Stalin and the commnists that liberated Europe during ww2 and not the americans?

furby100

159

furby100

Nov 1, 2004 at 4:53 AM

Quote:
Original post by sicu
- Do americans learn that it was Stalin and the commnists that liberated Europe during ww2 and not the americans?

The Russians didn't liberate the whole of Europe, but the Red Army conquered Berlin.

xanin

Nov 1, 2004 at 4:54 AM

Quote:
Original post by sicu

- No countries in Europe fought in WW2. Except the germans.

no, no, the germans werent in WW2, just the Nazis! :-p

Quote:
Original post by sicu
Now, what I want to know is;

- Is these opinions common in USA?
- Do americans learn any history about Europe (ETA, WW2, IRA etc)?
- Do americans learn that it was Stalin and the commnists that liberated Europe during ww2 and not the americans?

The most common opinions that I know are that french are cheese eating surrender monkeys and germans are war mongers.

That lady is a moron. Sadly, alot of people are woefully misguided in similar ways I suspect.

Yes, we do supposedly learn in Highschool and some of us in college about parts of european history. WW2 mostly, though its obviously skewed to the american perspective (europe was hopeless so we had to save them (again) (mostly the fault of the french though) :-p )

Woah, lets hold the train right there, Stalin? Stalin's red army may have liberated a large chunk of europe, and the sacrifices the russian people made may have enabled the allies to win the war, but stalin did not liberate france, stalin did not liberate belgium or italy, or etc etc.

xanin

Nov 1, 2004 at 4:57 AM

and yes, there are a good number of french made and probably german made, weapons in iraq used by the 'insurgents' against the governmental and american forces there (and the british and anyone else involved there)

No i dont believe that those countries are currently actively supplying iraqi resistance with those weapons.

etothex

Nov 1, 2004 at 5:01 AM

Quote:
Original post by xanin
and yes, there are a good number of french made and probably german made, weapons in iraq used by the 'insurgents' against the governmental and american forces there (and the british and anyone else involved there)

No i dont believe that those countries are currently actively supplying iraqi resistance with those weapons.

No, most of the weapons in iraq that are being used against us troops came before sanctions and the 1991 gulf war.

And guess where they came from? The US! Those weapons that Reagan sold to iraq, because saddam was fighting them psycho, comm-ya-nist iranians at the time. Whee!

Drevay

110

Drevay

Nov 1, 2004 at 5:13 AM

What the bloody hell?

xanin

Nov 1, 2004 at 5:16 AM

Quote:
Original post by etothex
Quote:
Original post by xanin
and yes, there are a good number of french made and probably german made, weapons in iraq used by the 'insurgents' against the governmental and american forces there (and the british and anyone else involved there)

No i dont believe that those countries are currently actively supplying iraqi resistance with those weapons.

No, most of the weapons in iraq that are being used against us troops came before sanctions and the 1991 gulf war.

.. yessssssssssssssss, not no, because i said they werent being currently supplied.

Quote:
Original post by etothex
And guess where they came from? The US! Those weapons that Reagan sold to iraq, because saddam was fighting them psycho, comm-ya-nist iranians at the time. Whee!

offhand i dont think the US sold Saddam ak-47s, russian made rpgs, or russian made tanks

nooo, we sold them the good stuff, like anthrax and other wmd materials :-)
...

GCoda

Nov 1, 2004 at 5:46 AM

Here's a link to some info about the events before and during WW2:

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm

And heres map about alliances and their terroritories:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/axis.htm

EDIT:

Maps of casulties:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2-loss.htm

They did fight alright. :(

Oluseyi

526

Oluseyi

Nov 1, 2004 at 6:15 AM

Quote:
Original post by sicu
- Is these opinions common in USA?

Statistically, how likely is it that, in a nation of 270 million people, the opinion of a single random person on the street will be representative of America?

And you wonder why we sneer at you. You (Europeans) seem to look for every opportunity to portray us as ignorant brutes, and consequently will go to great (and ludicrous) lengths to do so. Not that we aren't, but at least show some sophistication about it.

Eelco

237

Eelco

Nov 1, 2004 at 6:33 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Quote:
Original post by sicu
- Is these opinions common in USA?
Statistically, how likely is it that, in a nation of 270 million people, the opinion of a single random person on the street will be representative of America?

And you wonder why we sneer at you. You (Europeans) seem to look for every opportunity to portray us as ignorant brutes, and consequently will go to great (and ludicrous) lengths to do so. Not that we aren't, but at least show some sophistication about it.

it was a question about americans, not a conclusion about them.

and i must say i have to agree with the OP that this is a very relevant question in this case. and i cant help but say questions like these arise in me more often then would like them to.

GCoda

Nov 1, 2004 at 6:37 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
You (Europeans) seem to look for every opportunity to portray us as ignorant brutes, and consequently will go to great (and ludicrous) lengths to do so. Not that we aren't, but at least show some sophistication about it.

Like you just said your self:

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Statistically, how likely is it that, in a nation of 270 million people, the opinion of a single random person on the street will be representative of America?

One's act/opinion is not europe's way to go.

Ignorance is global, can we agree?

EDIT: Why am I even asking this. Of course the knowledge of people in some country depends on the fact how good education they have. But it seems that some peoples intrest of other countries ends when they dont like the country. Or they rather blame other countries because they think their country rules. That creates ingorance.

So I ask how many of non-communist people (as example, no offence) have actualy study communism and know what its all about? note that was a queston, not a statement.
Im just asking this because I have made observations during my life that people rarely know much about the things they 'reject'.

Same thing whit all the x vs x stuff in programming. Like you have probably noticed.

[Edited by - GCoda on November 1, 2004 7:37:18 AM]

Maega

160

Maega

Nov 1, 2004 at 6:51 AM

Why did you even ask this? You don't like it when we group all of you together, so why do it to us?

Those people don't represent the rest of America, just like some random people from your countries don't represent all of you. To ask such a question, you had to come to some type of conclusion about it, otherwise you wouldn't have asked.

Boris Karloff

Nov 1, 2004 at 7:20 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Quote:
Original post by sicu
- Is these opinions common in USA?
Statistically, how likely is it that, in a nation of 270 million people, the opinion of a single random person on the street will be representative of America?

And you wonder why we sneer at you. You (Europeans) seem to look for every opportunity to portray us as ignorant brutes, and consequently will go to great (and ludicrous) lengths to do so. Not that we aren't, but at least show some sophistication about it.

And that is exactly why we portray you as ignorant brutes. You automatically consider a question about americans as an attack on America as a whole.

Quote:
Original post by Maega
To ask such a question, you had to come to some type of conclusion about it, otherwise you wouldn't have asked.

So, in your mind, people come to conclusions and -then- ask questions? Personally, I often find that people form an opinion, then ask questions to verify that opinion and, if the answers are not consistent with their opinion, they change that opinion. Perhaps it doesn't work that way where you come from, but still.

Seriously. It's a question about the general opinion of Americans. There's nothing uncommon or fishy about that. Quit being paranoid and trying to claim the question insinuates anything.

Arild Fines

138

Arild Fines

Nov 1, 2004 at 8:13 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Statistically, how likely is it that, in a nation of 270 million people, the opinion of a single random person on the street will be representative of America?

It's not the first, 5th or 20th time we've heard sentiments like this. After hearing this kind of ignorant crap being spewed over and over, one does start to wonder if it really does represent the majority opinion.

You should also ask yourself if you actually are all that much closer to the american mainstream than we are. Are the opinions of your friends, family etc really representative for what goes on in the "heartland"?

PnP Bios

114

PnP Bios

Nov 1, 2004 at 8:24 AM

An american and a frenchman just happen to be in the restroom in an airport at the same time. They both take a leak. When they are done, the american starts to walk out the door, while the frenchman heads over to the sink. The frenchman says, "you know, in our country, we wash our hands when we utilize the facilities". The american says, "In america, we don't pee on our hands."

GCoda

Nov 1, 2004 at 8:39 AM

PnP Bios. Maybe you shouldnt have posted that joke.

Spoonbender

123

Spoonbender

Nov 1, 2004 at 9:44 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Quote:
Original post by sicu
- Is these opinions common in USA?
Statistically, how likely is it that, in a nation of 270 million people, the opinion of a single random person on the street will be representative of America?

Its better than 50%.

Quote:

And you wonder why we sneer at you. You (Europeans) seem to look for every opportunity to portray us as ignorant brutes, and consequently will go to great (and ludicrous) lengths to do so. Not that we aren't, but at least show some sophistication about it.

Err, he asked a question, about whether or not those opinions were common. But one thing I've noticed is that Americans often flip out over the least hint of criticism. Even a simple question like this is perceived as terribly hostile and offensive.

I don't see what's so bad about asking the question. We know that some people have those opinions, and the easiest way to find out if it's common, is to ask. And that's what the OP did.

Washu

Mod

375

Washu

Nov 1, 2004 at 9:55 AM

Quote:
Original post by sicu
The bottom line is;

- Europe have not seen war ever.
- No countries in Europe fought in WW2. Except the germans.

As has already been mentioned, the war front was spread out over a rather large portion of europe, they HAVE seen war, and participated.

Quote:

- Europe have never been attacked by terrorists.

News to me. Why, was there not just recently a terrorist bombing of a train in Spain? Hrm...is not Spain part of Europe?

Quote:

- Europe sells weapons to the terrorists so that they can kill americans.

Old news. We all did. Europe, US, Russia... it was called the cold war. Instead of dirtying our hands, we had others do it for us, guess what: not everyone will disapear quietly into a corner once you're done using them.

Quote:

- Terrorism is a new threat.

Terrorism is atleast as old as civilization.

Quote:

Now, what I want to know is;

- Is these opinions common in USA?

Hrm, hard question to answer, probably for the ignorant masses, yes. They will believe everything they see on TV.

Quote:

- Do americans learn any history about Europe (ETA, WW2, IRA etc)?

Somewhat, although our role in it is rather glorified. The coverage it is given is fairly...short. You end up having to major in history before you actually cover it at any real depth. Especially to get past the propaganda.

Eelco

237

Eelco

Nov 1, 2004 at 10:03 AM

Original post by Washu
Quote:
Original post by sicu
The bottom line is;

- Europe have not seen war ever.
- No countries in Europe fought in WW2. Except the germans.

As has already been mentioned, the war front was spread out over a rather large portion of europe, they HAVE seen war, and participated.
Quote:

- Europe have never been attacked by terrorists.

News to me. Why, was there not just recently a terrorist bombing of a train in Spain? Hrm...is not Spain part of Europe?
Quote:

- Europe sells weapons to the terrorists so that they can kill americans.

Old news. We all did. Europe, US, Russia... it was called the cold war. Instead of dirtying our hands, we had others do it for us, guess what: not everyone will disapear quietly into a corner once you're done using them.
Quote:

- Terrorism is a new threat.

Terrorism is atleast as old as civilization.
Quote:

Now, what I want to know is;

- Is these opinions common in USA?

Hrm, hard question to answer, probably for the ignorant masses, yes. They will believe everything they see on TV.
Quote:

- Do americans learn any history about Europe (ETA, WW2, IRA etc)?

Somewhat, although our role in it is rather glorified. The coverage it is given is fairly...short. You end up having to major in history before you actually cover it at any real depth. Especially to get past the propaganda.
Quote:

one of us really has his sarcasm detector turned off....

Etnu

108

Etnu

Nov 1, 2004 at 10:09 AM

Quote:
Original post by sicu
- Is these opinions common in USA?

Unfortunately, yes. Every time I ask people what they know about Madrid, they're usually clueless.

Quote:

- Do americans learn any history about Europe (ETA, WW2, IRA etc)?

Yes, we do -- few people pay attention, though.

Quote:

- Do americans learn that it was Stalin and the commnists that liberated Europe during ww2 and not the americans?

Depends. I did, but I know my parents did not -- it was that whole anti-communism thing. Today, most schools teach it like it is, with the Americans,Brits, French resistance, etc. on the western front and the Soviets on the east.

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