Java or C++

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The head of the computer science department insists that C++ is an obsolete language.

Double-you-tee-eff. C++ isn't obsolete by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds like your department chair's CS degree is the one that's obsolete!

As much as I despise Java, however, it's a halfway decent tool for understanding abstracted OO concepts. The combination of portability and HLL is nice too. And since performance isn't really emphasized in introductory undergraduate courses (at least not in mine), the main drawback of Java isn't such a concern to them, I guess.

This sounds like flame bait.

Decent universities would teach both. A degree should equip you with what you need to get started out in the real world, and not constrain you to a particular toolset.

Java is good for illustrating high level concepts (design, responsibilities, user interface, etc) with less concentration on memory management, pointers and such... and constains you to OO.

C++ lets you program in OO when you like and swap over to traditional methods when that's more suitable. It's more flexible, but the flexibilty means people can screw it up easier.

C++ is not obsolete, it's a well established tool. Both have their merits. Heck even ADA has it's uses in military, and people post on here whom still work with COBOL (even if they don't like too).

In the real world you don't often get to choose your language platform, it's often chosen for you by choices made in the past. C++ is here to stay, for a long time to come.

Java here. (or at least, initially).
Send your head of computer science chap this...

Devry teaches Java and I think they still teach non-oop C++ in the intro classes.

As for C++ being obsolete....LOL. No language is ever really obsolete. Its up to you to decide what best suits the project. We use mainly VB6 at work and then C++/Java for the stuff that VB simply cannot do.

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Original post by benryves Java here. (or at least, initially). Send your head of computer science chap this...

Ben, that site r0xx0rs. I'm having fun reading through these memos. Thanks for the link!

1st year: Java
2nd year: C, C++, Unix Shell, Perl, Scheme, Prolog

Now 3rd and 4th year courses deal with advanced programming with C and C++. For example, currently are we using C for our OS programming class.

My prof has said that soon the first year Java course will be replaced to teach C#.

Original post by kSquared

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As much as I despise Java, however, it's a halfway decent tool for understanding abstracted OO concepts. The combination of portability and HLL is nice too. And since performance isn't really emphasized in introductory undergraduate courses (at least not in mine), the main drawback of Java isn't such a concern to them, I guess.

I agree, but one thing I really hate about Java is that it is cluttered and you have to declare public and private over every function and variable whereas in C++ you can just make a section that is all private,public, or protected.

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Original post by kSquared Quote: Original post by benryves Java here. (or at least, initially). Send your head of computer science chap this... Ben, that site r0xx0rs. I'm having fun reading through these memos. Thanks for the link!

our proxy says it has "illegal" content and im not allowed to go there :(

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Original post by Perfunction Quote: Original post by kSquared Quote: Original post by benryves Java here. (or at least, initially). Send your head of computer science chap this... Ben, that site r0xx0rs. I'm having fun reading through these memos. Thanks for the link! our proxy says it has "illegal" content and im not allowed to go there :(

Haha! I'll mirror it. One sec...
Hope this works!

A University computer science degree isn't about learning . You'll be learning about the mathematical foundations of computer science, programming concepts, complexity analysis etc. Programming languages just let implement these concepts on a computer. Throughout University, you'll be exposed to several programming language, none of which you will become an expert at. You're not suppose to though, because that might narrow your skills too much. You're not meant to come out of your degree knowing everything about C++ as your knowledge will be more rounded and will enable you to pick up new concepts and languages as you need them. If you just know how to program in one language, there aren't many options open to you except becoming another code-monkey and the computing industry is much more interesting than this.

This is what I did so far(still have a while to go to pick up the rest of my core and electives.
1st year: Java
2nd year: MIPS assembly(computer organization),
C++, Java(data structures), Objective-C(data structures & Algorithms)
3rd year core: Scheme, ML, Java
Electives: Java, C++, Python
As prior posts have stated: there really aren't any obsolete langauges if you, the programmer can find a use for them.

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Original post by kSquared Quote: The head of the computer science department insists that C++ is an obsolete language. Double-you-tee-eff. C++ isn't obsolete by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds like your department chair's CS degree is the one that's obsolete!

No way, soon it's going to be all about teh C#. I hope...at least. C++ is a monstrosity.

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Original post by Perfunction Devry teaches Java and I think they still teach non-oop C++ in the intro classes. As for C++ being obsolete....LOL. No language is ever really obsolete. Its up to you to decide what best suits the project. We use mainly VB6 at work and then C++/Java for the stuff that VB simply cannot do.

Mmm, I'm gonna have to say that FORTRAN, COBOL, and ALGOL are all pretty much obsolete - at least as far as writing new programs.

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Original post by bastard2k5 As prior posts have stated: there really aren't any obsolete langauges if you, the programmer can find a use for them.

*evil cackling*

You know, one of these days I really should learn a useful programming language.

I was taught Java in the first year of my Computer Science Degree, then C++ in the second year.

It's Java here. I'm hoping that next year we switch to something else like C++, because I think that will be more useful to me.

Pascal at college [crying]

C++ at uni [cool]

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Original post by Zul Quote: Original post by Perfunction Devry teaches Java and I think they still teach non-oop C++ in the intro classes. As for C++ being obsolete....LOL. No language is ever really obsolete. Its up to you to decide what best suits the project. We use mainly VB6 at work and then C++/Java for the stuff that VB simply cannot do. Mmm, I'm gonna have to say that FORTRAN, COBOL, and ALGOL are all pretty much obsolete - at least as far as writing new programs.

well yeah you aren't going to see too many people using those languages but i've heard there are still a few businesses that haven't upgraded yet. and there is no reason to at this point as long as it does what they want.

You can choose between C++, Java, and Fortran for your introductory class [java was just started], but the following Data Structures course is centered around C++. After that, you get introduced to MIPS assembly, Scheme, Perl, bash scripting, and a couple others, but they're just bits and pieces within other classes.

CM