NSA

GCHQ

One thing to be aware of is that you have to undergo a thorough background check before working for the NSA, because you will likely need a security clearance (usually either secret or top secret level). When I interned with them for a summer, the background check took a full three weeks, and they actually called a few of my friends to ask their opinion on my character and trustworthiness. I can only imagine that someone who just recently became a US citizen will be subject to even more scrutiny. Basically, if you've got any skeletons in your closet, they'll be leery.

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Original post by TomX So what I'm asking the UK equivalent of the NSA...

The Government Communications Headquarters or GCHQ.

GCHQ Vacancies.

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...or for peoples opinions of either working for the NSA or Cryptographer.

I think it'd be excellent. The NSA is reputed to have some of the most advanced spy equipment in the world, employ some of the most intelligent mathematical minds in the world, and do some really first-rate stuff. Yeah, they're a division of the Department of Defense, and yeah they stand against strong crypto as a citizens' right (because they wouldn't be able to break codes easily), but that aside, it's a kick-ass agency.

Besides, how cool would it be to be an actual spook? To be at a dinner and answer "So... what do you do?" with either a complete fabrication or "I'm sorry, but I can't discuss it"? Okay, I actually know lots of people in the MD-VA-DC area whose job descriptions are classified, and I can assume that not all of them work for the NSA. But it'd be fun.

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Original post by kSquared ... you will likely need a security clearance...

Likely? I'd estimate that 85% of simple programming jobs in the DC Metro Area require security clearance. The National Security Agency?


Yeah. "Likely." :P

It sounds great! It would be a lot of fun i think but you'll need to be on your best behaviour. Good luck!

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Original post by Oluseyi Quote: Original post by kSquared ... you will likely need a security clearance... Likely? I'd estimate that 85% of simple programming jobs in the DC Metro Area require security clearance. The National Security Agency? Yeah. "Likely." :P

And it's only getting tougher. I know that some people who applied for (permanant) programmer positions at the cia have security clearance checks which last upwards of a year.

Right now, having a security clearance is like gold. It's the one niche in an otherwise crummy job market.

But yeah, GCHQ is well-known in history. It grew out of the British program to break the Enigma cipher, and information has been unclassified that they actually developed the RSA and diffie-hellman key exchange before the respective academics did.

I suggest you read up on it. There are a couple of good books on the subject. The Code Book by Simon Singh is a good general introduction to crypto in general, there is a chapter on GCHQ in there somewhere I think.

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Original post by etothex But yeah, GCHQ is well-known in history. It grew out of the British program to break the Enigma cipher, and information has been unclassified that they actually developed the RSA and diffie-hellman key exchange before the respective academics did.

Ah, WW2, the point where the UK led the world in code breaking and computer technology... and then took it all apart and forgot about it coz of 'national security'... pld [grin]

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Original post by Oluseyi Quote: Original post by kSquared ... you will likely need a security clearance... Likely? I'd estimate that 85% of simple programming jobs in the DC Metro Area require security clearance. The National Security Agency? Yeah. "Likely." :P

un·der·state·ment [noun]:

Restraint or lack of emphasis in expression, as for rhetorical effect; a disclosure or statement that is less than complete.

;)

Yeah, it takes at least 6 months to get a security clearance here. Luckily you can get an interim security clearance in the meantime so you can work with classified material. It used to be that they didn't have interim clearances where I work, so people would get hired, and then it would take six months before they could really work on anything. That must have sucked. Luckily I didn't have to go through that.

The security forms are a pain and you have to do it every five or tens years (I think it's ten, I can't remember off the top of my head.) And whatever you do, don't get in trouble with the law. Because here, a felony means no security clearance for you.

Oh yeah, and I believe even postal employees here are required to have a security clearance.

You didn't happen to read Digital Fortress, did you?

I won't say any spooky (scuse the pun) stories about former GCHQ employees and my dad and me, but GCQH is good for UK electronic spying. Menworth hill is reputed to be the central European databank for the infamous but wholey denied Echelon Spy Network. So if you are interested in a UK job for NSA scope out Menworth Hill.

I knew a chick who interned at the NSA and she had to undergo not only the obvious background check (no matter what your position with the NSA, you have to have a background check), but she also was subjugated to a lie detector test on a semi-regular basis. She's also a frickin' brilliant physicist/mathematician and cute to boot, too bad she's a lesbian.

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Original post by _the_phantom_ Quote: Original post by etothex But yeah, GCHQ is well-known in history. It grew out of the British program to break the Enigma cipher, and information has been unclassified that they actually developed the RSA and diffie-hellman key exchange before the respective academics did. Ah, WW2, the point where the UK led the world in code breaking and computer technology... and then took it all apart and forgot about it coz of 'national security'... pld [grin]

Well the US was doing pretty, we had cracked the japanese purple cipher, and had our own unbreakable navajo cipher...but yeah, the UK pretty much was king breaking enigma. And also remember that Charles Babbage broke the Vigenère cipher in the 19th century, and the code of Mary, Queen of Scots was broken by the English...Enigma was only the last hurrah of the great brit codebreakers...or was it? Who knows what is still classified...

How is it possible that you've heard of NSA, and not GCHQ?

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Original post by dagarach How is it possible that you've heard of NSA, and not GCHQ?

Because in the movies the NSA is depicted as like the ultra-super-secret-spy-undercover-we could tell you but then we'd have to kill you-agency(even though it's more like GCHQ than James Bond), after everyone got used to covert CIA agents. How would the GCHQ be represented in a spy-action movie? Have the mathematicians hurl unproven theorems against the secret subversive enemy operatives? :)

I think the last great British cryptography event was the invention of RSA.

There's MI6 recruitment in Cambridge, but you have to be spotted.

Do take into account that the time around university(you haven't mentioned a degree, so I'll assume you're pre-uni) is the time many people develop morals. And there's not a lot of jobs more morally corrupt than working for the NSA or an equivalent.

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

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GCHQ

Clear and consise :)

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One thing to be aware of is that you have to undergo a thorough background check before working for the NSA, because you will likely need a security clearance (usually either secret or top secret level). When I interned with them for a summer, the background check took a full three weeks, and they actually called a few of my friends to ask their opinion on my character and trustworthiness. I can only imagine that someone who just recently became a US citizen will be subject to even more scrutiny. Basically, if you've got any skeletons in your closet, they'll be leery.

Well I have a clear criminal record and what sort of a friend would say something bad about you :S

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The Government Communications Headquarters or GCHQ. GCHQ Vacancies.

Repeat: Clear and consise :)

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I think it'd be excellent. The NSA is reputed to have some of the most advanced spy equipment in the world, employ some of the most intelligent mathematical minds in the world, and do some really first-rate stuff. Yeah, they're a division of the Department of Defense, and yeah they stand against strong crypto as a citizens' right (because they wouldn't be able to break codes easily), but that aside, it's a kick-ass agency. Besides, how cool would it be to be an actual spook? To be at a dinner and answer "So... what do you do?" with either a complete fabrication or "I'm sorry, but I can't discuss it"? Okay, I actually know lots of people in the MD-VA-DC area whose job descriptions are classified, and I can assume that not all of them work for the NSA. But it'd be fun.

Makes me want to work for them even more :)

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Likely? I'd estimate that 85% of simple programming jobs in the DC Metro Area require security clearance. The National Security Agency? Yeah. "Likely." :P

I'm sure I'll be fine :)

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It sounds great! It would be a lot of fun i think but you'll need to be on your best behaviour. Good luck!

Only time and good luck will tell :P

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And it's only getting tougher. I know that some people who applied for (permanant) programmer positions at the cia have security clearance checks which last upwards of a year. Right now, having a security clearance is like gold. It's the one niche in an otherwise crummy job market. But yeah, GCHQ is well-known in history. It grew out of the British program to break the Enigma cipher, and information has been unclassified that they actually developed the RSA and diffie-hellman key exchange before the respective academics did. I suggest you read up on it. There are a couple of good books on the subject. The Code Book by Simon Singh is a good general introduction to crypto in general, there is a chapter on GCHQ in there somewhere I think.

I'm planning on buying some books on it to try help me understand more about Cryptology and whether or not I wish to become a Cryptologist.

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Ah, WW2, the point where the UK led the world in code breaking and computer technology... and then took it all apart and forgot about it coz of 'national security'... pld

UK > (Any other country) ... don't you agree :)

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un·der·state·ment [noun]: Restraint or lack of emphasis in expression, as for rhetorical effect; a disclosure or statement that is less than complete. ;)

Thanks, I've always wanted a real-life dictionary.

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Yeah, it takes at least 6 months to get a security clearance here. Luckily you can get an interim security clearance in the meantime so you can work with classified material. It used to be that they didn't have interim clearances where I work, so people would get hired, and then it would take six months before they could really work on anything. That must have sucked. Luckily I didn't have to go through that. The security forms are a pain and you have to do it every five or tens years (I think it's ten, I can't remember off the top of my head.) And whatever you do, don't get in trouble with the law. Because here, a felony means no security clearance for you. Oh yeah, and I believe even postal employees here are required to have a security clearance.

I'll have to read up on this security clearance, it seems like a vital factor.

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You didn't happen to read Digital Fortress, did you?

No? Though I might rent it out from the library out of interest.

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I won't say any spooky (scuse the pun) stories about former GCHQ employees and my dad and me, but GCQH is good for UK electronic spying. Menworth hill is reputed to be the central European databank for the infamous but wholey denied Echelon Spy Network. So if you are interested in a UK job for NSA scope out Menworth Hill.

Well it's not that I wanted to work for NSA > GCHQ, it's just I never knew if a UK equivalent existed but now that it does I would rather work for GCHQ > NSA.

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I knew a chick who interned at the NSA and she had to undergo not only the obvious background check (no matter what your position with the NSA, you have to have a background check), but she also was subjugated to a lie detector test on a semi-regular basis. She's also a frickin' brilliant physicist/mathematician and cute to boot, too bad she's a lesbian.

I want to be great at physics and maths and I've love to be a lesbian, if only :(

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Well the US was doing pretty, we had cracked the japanese purple cipher, and had our own unbreakable navajo cipher...but yeah, the UK pretty much was king breaking enigma. And also remember that Charles Babbage broke the Vigenère cipher in the 19th century, and the code of Mary, Queen of Scots was broken by the English...Enigma was only the last hurrah of the great brit codebreakers...or was it? Who knows what is still classified...

Argue all you like, simple fact, UK > 10(USA) :P Well who knows.

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How is it possible that you've heard of NSA, and not GCHQ?

Well I had heard that the NSA employed the most mathematicians in the world so as I want to do a Maths degree I had to find out what NSA was, also it was on Jake 2.0 but I only realised this after I expressed an interest in it.

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Because in the movies the NSA is depicted as like the ultra-super-secret-spy-undercover-we could tell you but then we'd have to kill you-agency(even though it's more like GCHQ than James Bond), after everyone got used to covert CIA agents. How would the GCHQ be represented in a spy-action movie? Have the mathematicians hurl unproven theorems against the secret subversive enemy operatives? :)

Quite possible.

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I think the last great British cryptography event was the invention of RSA. There's MI6 recruitment in Cambridge, but you have to be spotted. Do take into account that the time around university(you haven't mentioned a degree, so I'll assume you're pre-uni) is the time many people develop morals. And there's not a lot of jobs more morally corrupt than working for the NSA or an equivalent.

Only time will tell, fortunately for me I am trying to get into Cambridge to study Maths so *fingers crossed*

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

If it helps in any replies I'm currently studying Maths, Further Maths and Computing (I wish to study one year of Physics next year too) and wish to study Maths at university.

I feel I should point out that it was the Polish who originally broke Enigma, but they passed their work on to their counterparts in British and French intelligence when they became worried that Germany was going to invade them.

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Original post by dagarach How is it possible that you've heard of NSA, and not GCHQ?

Better marketing and more spy movies. ;)