Optimize through VC++ .NET?

.NET uses Managed Code, so the Garbage Collector could decide to run whenever it wants unless you specifically tell it when to do so. Have you specified that you want complete control over the Garbage Collector? I know there's a way to do this, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. I think its the System.GC class provides methods that control the system garbage collector, and you should be able to find it out on MSDN.

If I were programming a game in .NET, I would tell the garbage collector to run between levels, when the user saves, or whatever is a time where a few hundred milliseconds isn't going to matter.

No I dont want any managed code in this. I am doing all the memory management myself. I wanted to write for shader 3.0 support so I upped to .NET. Any ideas?

EDIT: Managed was disabled by default. So still is... and is still slow :(.

[Edited by - xsirxx on December 21, 2004 11:33:59 PM]

Shameless *bump*. Any1 had problems switching to .NET and having their fps get hit this hard? any1? any1? bueler? bueler?

Are you doing a release build? You say you were using VC before but don't mention a version number. Do you mean you were using VC6 and are now using VC.Net? Which version of .Net? Perhaps you dont have the optimizing compiler. If that is the case, you need to download the .Net 2003 toolkit and set your IDE to search that folder for binaries first so it will use the better compiler.

Hey, i will try to help you, you give me a very good idea in my similar post...

DO you scan your code checking where the time is consumed ? Like you said maybe some std things works slow now on VC++ .net. Eliminate it and all we be normal with luck :)

Im using the latest build of .NET yea, and before VC++ 6.0. I dont know which compiler I am using, I do know that under my release build settings Ive changed almost all of the settings to the optimal that are offered. This is from the MSDN page explaining each setting in depth. Ive also gone through every single setting numerous times to flick each one up and down incase a "certain" case had appeared.

As for the std vectors, yea Ive profiled it and that is where my time is being consumed the most. Thats why with VC++ 6.0 I went ahead and did the optimizing under the release build and it picked up speed to the 680fps instead of the 63fps before hand.

--Can you explain the IDE a little more? Where would that optimized compiler be? and where should I grab it if indeed thats the case?

Thanks for the replys, helps me get a bit closer to the problem.

Brad

Hm - are you sure you have v-sync turned off in your app?
Also - if you are using DirectX - check for any output from the debug versions of the DirectX libraries and try switching to the release versions to see if performance gets better.

Hope that helps a bit!

Quote:

Original post by BRooksWackerman Hm - are you sure you have v-sync turned off in your app? Also - if you are using DirectX - check for any output from the debug versions of the DirectX libraries and try switching to the release versions to see if performance gets better. Hope that helps a bit!

Yea Ive already switched to retail, turned off debug in all areas of DX and no difference there. Like I said the fps only changes between release and debug.

Let me make this a little more simple of a question, is any1 using std::vector with .NET unmanaged code in c++? if so, how much of a slow down do you see? and difference from debug to releaase? and if release is much faster can you post all of your settings? heh thanks

My particle engine uses std::vector to hold the particles (max of 1000).

While drawing all 1000 particles on the screen (and each particle is a 32 vertice mesh) I get around 160fps. The application is windowed.

When no particles are being drawn, I max at 833.33 fps..... :/

Radeon 9800 Pro , P4 2.6 w/ HT

CPU usage is around ~50% while the program runs.

All the code is unmanaged C++.

Did you change any settings in .NET? did you convert the program from visual 6? I am doing alot of verts a well, but the same amount from visual 6 gave me over 600fps, and now in crappy .NET I get 63 fps. You couldnt post your settings could ya? hah thats alot...

Im finding out fast that .NET is not for game programmers. Any1 have a good site that tells ya how to use shader 3.0 with the old visual?

You know if you have the optimizing compiler by looking at which version of the product you bought. If you have Visual Studio Professional(or Academic or any of the better versions that include all languages), you have the better compiler. If you have just one language (VB, VC, etc), you have the worse compiler. To rectify the problem, you need to find the 'Visual C++ Toolkit 2003' on the microsoft website and then modify your global settings inside visual studio so that in the directory lists, the 'Visual C++ Toolkit 2003' directories are above the default directories.
Edit: Other thread had the link: Visual C++ Toolkit 2003

Quote:

Original post by xsirxx Im finding out fast that .NET is not for game programmers. Any1 have a good site that tells ya how to use shader 3.0 with the old visual?

VS.Net is perfect for game programmers, if you do the steps outlined above to get a half decent compiler with it. The decent compiler is much more standard compliant and a much better optermiser than the VC6 compiler ever was.

^^ Agreed.

I did not convert my project from VC6.

Try creating a NEW project, and then adding all the files into the project.

I have 2K3 with the optimizing compiler. I have all options for optimizing able to be selected. I looked into using the toolkit, but I already had it. I also dloaded the intel compiler, that runs fine, but gives me 20 fps instead of 63 which .NET gives me. I think I have to revert back to the old compiler if I cant figure this out, thats why Im at ends. Tommorow Ill try to create a NEW project and import the files.... Dont know why that would be it, but who knows. Any ideas?

I wouldnt be so upset if I hadnt tried everything I thought I could. That and I had 600fps and cant deal with 63. YET it seems no1 else has had this problem. So Im stuck I suspose? Maybe there is a bug in that converting, Ill check that.

Get a profiler. Then you don't have to waste time guessing. AMD's CodeAnalyst and the DevPartner Community Edition are both free fan favorites.

Diff the old vector implementation to the new one and figure out what affects the performance.

anon, no code changes except updating to dx9, but that wasnt much besides some null params added because of unused crap. AND yea all the settings are in release Ive gone through all the msdn docs on it...

Ive profiled in .NET and the slow down is in std::vector takes up 97% of the time. Profiled in release mode on VC6 and vector takes up about .000000000001% of the time. Its there.

As far as the diff goes, There seems to be no problem for all these other ppl, although I checked the file and instead of being 19k its 45k. So there is an obvious difference there, just dont know what it is. YET again no1 else is having this problem it seems.

Im going to rebuild today, so Ill post back in a bit with the outcome.

Can you give us your compiler options for release mode?

I'm using:
/O2 /Op /Ot /GL /D "WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D "_CONSOLE" /D "_MBCS" /FD /EHsc /MD /FAs /Fa"Release/" /Fo"Release/" /Fd"Release/vc70.pdb" /W4 /nologo /c /Wp64 /Zi /TP /wd4311

I did a test using the std::vector class, and when used properly, I found it to be just as fast if not faster than standard arrays. I also upgraded my unmanaged project from VC6 to VC7.1 (.NET) recently. I got a increase of about 10-20fps after turning on all the compiler options.

What profiler are you using? I the Compuware DevPartner free edition, and its good enough for my needs.