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Picture sort

Started by Thermodynamics Dec 22, 2004 at 4:56 PM 4 replies 850+ views

Original Post

Dec 22, 2004 at 4:56 PM

Here is a game idea that I have not seen anything like.

Setup: The Reason: Games are entirely for entertainment value only and do nothing productive for the working world. (Something I realized after I spent an hour making a shovel in ATITD) I would like to turn a portion of the collective brain power spent on gaming towards more productive ends. In this example I would like people to do something not easily done by a computer: recognize and categorize a picture. The Pieces: 1. hundreds of pictures scoured off the internet. 2. 2 or more teams of people. The Rules: 1. Construct a game to categorize the pictures (or partial set therein) 2. The computer has no way of identifying what the picture is, therefore the computer cannot tell whether a person is lying. 3. Fun and fast!

My Example Sort out pictures with people and identify the people. There are two teams for each game. Each game would last about 5 minutes and have a certain number of pictures used Each team has exactly 3 people: Primary sorter-His job is to sift through all of the pictures coming in and decide whether or not they have people in them. Roper- His job is to use a line lasso to identify each person from the pics sent by primary sorter. Roper can also toss out an image if it doesn't have Quality control- Gets image where the teams do not agree and checks whether or not they are right. Image could be from either team. If quality control disagrees then image is thrown out and points deducted from score of both. Picture A shows an ape. Team 1 somehow gets confused and marks it as having 1 person. Team 2 doesn't and throws it out. Both QC agree that it shows no people. Team 1 is -5 Picture B shows 2 people. Both teams get it right. QC does not review. Both teams +10 Picture C shows 3 people. Both teams mark as having 2. QC does not review Both teams +10. Picture is mislabled (bad result) Picture D shows a person and their dog. Team 1 circles only the person. Team 2 circles the person and dog. QC from both teams look at both pictures and decide Team 1 (unbeknowst to them) is the right one. Team 1 +10, Team 2 -5 Picture E Shows two people. Teams disagree, QC disagree, both teams - 10 and so on... What are your ideas for a game?

Coz

Dec 25, 2004 at 10:03 PM

Quote:
Original post by Thermodynamics
Games are entirely for entertainment value only and do nothing productive for the working world.

Not exactly related with what you are asking but.. I beg to differ. Not all games are just for entertainment. There has long been this genre called edutainment. Not only that, but there are lots of games that while their main purpose is not to teach, they can teach you geography, math, science, history or even not only giving you information but teaching how to think.. just because you seem to spend lot of time in a MMORPG doesn't means that all games are like that one.

Madster

Dec 26, 2004 at 8:10 PM

in your example there is a QC in each team, and they both get to evaluate the other team. Thus, there are unresolvable situations and the QC become redundant.

The problem with this idea is scoring. You can't have the computer score, and you can't have a human scoring either.
As far as i can see right now, it's a no win scenario =/

Thermodynamics

Author

Thermodynamics

Dec 27, 2004 at 9:10 AM

Quote:
Original post by Coz
Not exactly related with what you are asking but.. I beg to differ. Not all games are just for entertainment. There has long been this genre called edutainment.

This is true. I would like to create a new genre along the lines of usefultainment or productive-tainment or "I really should be working but instead all I want to do is play games"-tainment. Think how many wasted brainhours have been wasted on solving how to put 52 cards in the right order. Most men play games as a way to solve smaller, easier problems and therefore feel like they have done something.

Why not actually let people do something useful for everybody instead of finding new ways to order their 52 pieces of colored paper.

Thermodynamics

Author

Thermodynamics

Dec 27, 2004 at 9:20 AM

Quote:
Original post by Madster
in your example there is a QC in each team, and they both get to evaluate the other team. Thus, there are unresolvable situations and the QC become redundant.

The problem with this idea is scoring. You can't have the computer score, and you can't have a human scoring either.
As far as i can see right now, it's a no win scenario =/

This is exactly the problem I was running into. Without the computer knowing what is right and wrong you must trust people to make the right decision. Knowing that this is a rarity to happen on its own an incentive must be given to do so. By having the other team check what was right and wrong you could provide this incentive, except that it open up a new line of attack.

THe role of the QC person on the team was a final sweep on the problem areas. I put that they would sometimes get pictures from their team and sometime from the opponents. In this way, the QC would be forced to answer correctly for fear of hurting his own team.

I don't think this is a good solution.

Do you have any ideas on how to convince people to tell the truth? To me it seems like a prisoners dilemma type question. Ensure that by ratting out their opponents they recieve an ample reward.

Madster

Dec 27, 2004 at 6:30 PM

Quote:
Original post by Thermodynamics
Do you have any ideas on how to convince people to tell the truth? To me it seems like a prisoners dilemma type question. Ensure that by ratting out their opponents they recieve an ample reward.

almost any way out i can think of makes the rest of the team rather redundant.
And if they were, you're left out with QC doing the bulk of the job without any competition. which isn't any fun, and also is sort of like a job.

You should probably look for another example, or another gameplay angle on the same job (classify images).
I also considered facing 3 teams in each match, thus making decisions easier (uneven, one is always outvoted), but then there's collusion which could screw up all of your classification. So in the end you always end up with the need for a trusted moderator, thus defeating the purpose of the game.

You could also have people score freely, like wikipedia or urban dictionary. This has a mixed result. Then there's the problem that people would play and wouldn't know their score until a week after or more...

dunno, honestly i don't see a way out for this problem. However there are others that could work better. Maybe there is some repetitive work out there that could benefit from "spicing up", only to make it less tedious (so, the worker is still doing a job and his incentive is payment and keeping the job.... but now its a less boring job)

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