This has been driving my nuts for at least 2 years now. Folks have been refering to the "Legend Of Zelda" series as an rpg, or the trivialy more accurate action/rpg, or adventure/rpg. I contend that the Zelda series is far more kin to a puzzle game than an rpg. For the sake of this thread: Puzzle game = not a Tetris type puzzler, but an Adventures of Lolo, Solomon''s Keys, etc, where the character has many different abilities, and puzzles are designed during game development, not created by randomly falling/appearing pieces. Rpg = Final Fantasy, et al. Games heavy in statistics, resource management (with magic points, heal potions), and with hundreds of inventory items. Also rpg''s have stronger stories. ..Purists will be quick to point out that any game where you "play" a "role" is a "role-playing" game, but that''s a very thin argument that bears little weight in the real world. I don''t think it''s worth debate. So while games in the Zelda Series do have some rpg elements, such as hearts = hp, swords and sheilds power up every now and then, and there are some townsfolks and a mild story to follow, the gameplay of Zelda is closer to a puzzle game than it is an rpg. Shall we reflect on Chris Crawford''s mention of ''verbs availible to the player'' from Next Generation Magazine about 3 years ago: Lets look at the verbs availible to the player in The Legend Of Zelda. Ocarina of Time (so as to avoid any spoilers for those playing Majora''s Mask) The Player can: Walk, run, slash with sword, use shield, roll forward, jump, climb, push, pull, light torches, activate switches with slingshot or arrow, bomb walls, some switches/enemies where only vulnerable to the boomerang, pick up and throw objects, hookshot to get places, some switches/enemies were only vulnerable to the Megaton Hammer, the heavy boots allowed walking under water, hover boots where similarly helpful, Some places could only be accessed by old or young Link... there''s plenty more. So the game play in Zelda is about restricting the players movement, and then rewarding them with movement enableing power-ups, ex. "Now I''ve got Epona, I can go explore the Gerudo camp". When tackling a dungeon in a Zelda game (the heart and soul of Zelda gameplay), what your doing is trying to figure out the puzzles in the dungeon and open up the doors to move foward. Its not about using the Sword of Uranus +3 to kill a boss for the Helm of Uranus, its about hitting the eyeball switch that frozen in ice, by shooting your regular arrow thru a burning torch. In summary ( I promise.. this is all) Zelda games are more like puzzlers, than rpg. Power ups aren''t about letting you fight or defend better, but they''re for letting you solve future puzzles. And there''s more story in the first 2 hours of any final fantasy, than there is in the whole series of Zelda games. Any one still awake out there..?

heres where I think you are wrong:

"So the game play in Zelda is about restricting the players movement, and then rewarding them with movement enableing power-ups, ex. "Now I''ve got Epona, I can go explore the Gerudo camp"."

How is that fundamentaly different then "I''ve now reached level X and can finaly explore such and such a place"?

Any RPG starts off restricting your movement..sure in some it isn''t as "cut and dry" as others...you may get to venture out into the woods but not get far until you are strong enough to beat whatever lerks out there...

The whole concept of charactor levels, experience points, etc.. basicly equals the "power-up" concept...they both work to improve the charactor...just one does it in a more gradual way

Give me a fricken break. I cant stand people who post stupid crap like yours ape..how about that! It shouldnt even have gotten 1 reply..thanks msw! you guys just dont get it, you always argue about the most stupid things..just like those that argue over which type of music is best or the game they like is better than the rest...bahhh! you cant argue about personal preferences because they are personal!! doh! I suggest you go unplug Ape and see a therapist...since you cant get over anger for 2 years...ever hear the term pyscho?

and dont worry...im not gonna flame this stupid thread anymore cuz ive waisted enough time..

aka John M.
Never give up. Never surrender!

I don''t know where you kids come in and call Zelda an RPG game, but Zelda isn''t a RPG game. It infact is a puzzle/action game. RPGs have a story line, that continuly moves from one direction to another, and your actions can change the story line dramaticly. Zelda, no matter how many times you play it, gives u the same freakin game. RPGs are Role Playing Games. Meaning you play as different roles of charachters. IN Zelda you only play as link. In FF (final fantasy) you have like 10 different people you can play as. And with each one, you can end the game differently.

quote:
Puzzle game = not a Tetris type puzzler, but an Adventures of Lolo, Solomon''s Keys, etc, where the character has many different abilities, and puzzles are designed during game development, not created by randomly falling/appearing pieces.

Let''s see here, many different abilities, designed puzzles. With that definition, Half-Life, Unreal, Quake I and II, The whole mega man series (I could go on forever) or nothing more than "puzzle games". Come on. Give me a break.

Also, don''t mean to bash your post anymore, but who really cares wether or not zelda was (or is) an RPG. As long as it''s fun, that''s what matters to me.


"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams."
- Willy Wonka

Quote "
"So the game play in Zelda is about restricting the players movement, and
then rewarding them with movement enableing power-ups, ex. "Now I've got
Epona, I can go explore the Gerudo camp"."


Well one way of saying this is that it uses a system where player achievements (solving puzzles) are rewarded with equipment which allows them to do more things, and thus often increases the explorable areas or gives new ways to fight / move.

Often the reward for a puzzle (in Zelda) is the item that would have allowed you to get to the reward easily.

Ie. Completed section = reward (increase in abilities / flexibility).

Edited by - Ketchaval on November 3, 2000 6:02:58 PM

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"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on November 3, 2000 6:10:49 PM

If FF8 is an RPG then Zelda sure as hell isn''t

If FF8 is an RPG then Zelda sure as hell isn''t

I''d say that zelda64 is barely an RPG, and that zelda for snes isn''t. I like the snes version better though.