C++ VS DarkBASIC

For a second there, I thought the word "hockey" was going to be uttered at some point.

If he knows one tool, then he should strive to use that tool. Discovering its limitations and the limitations of his idea will enable him to better asses what he needs for the future, in terms of languages, experience and reality checks.

So you think, it would be better for him to learn more DarkBASIC and stretch the language to its fullest (that he is able to do) then learn C++?

what your friend needs is a reality check: not a new programming language.

if making a mmorpg is his goal, all hes in for is disappointment, no matter what language he picks. his choice of language should be looked at in the bigger context of his further life as a programmer, not in that of his doomed project.

We could have all the reasons in the world for saying that he should use something else, but nobody ever got *good* at anything by constant jumping ships and trying to pick up on something else because "its better". So, in my opinion, if he is proficient in something, he should use it to the best of his ability, and then he'll be more experienced to make decisions in the future about where next to take his skills and effort when he hits those brick walls.

So, if he can't get all the functionality he needs for his idea using what he knows, then he will know that intimately, and know -why- to switch to something else in the future.

And by using the tool he is most proficient in, he will be equipped to better understand why his goals may be unrealistic or whatnot, because he will see those brick walls coming and be able to make experienced judgements. Whereas, blaming it on the language will teach nothing, and he'll be making his decisions off of the opinions of others without knowledge to back it up.

There is no point in learning DarkBASIC then C++. C++ is not the ultimate programming language. It's a language, just like DarkBASIC. While C++ currently is the most popular programming language for video games, that doesn't mean all video games must be made in C++.

It really depends on the scope of the game.

MMORPG client in DarkBASIC: Probably fairly easy and workable
MMORPG server in DarkBASIC: I'd suggest this isn't the best plan

Perhaps he should learn C++ (or Java or C# or something else) for the server component?

Also, consider telling to drop the "Massivly" from his MORPG. He probably dosn't have the knowledge or skill required or funds or hardware etc to do more than 100 or so players (I suggest he aim for 20 to begin with, and expand slowly).

GoogleBattle has the answer.

... On a serious note, try each one out and see what you think.

See the thing I dont get, is how he is going to make this game work with a lanugage like DarkBASIC. See, there is only a slim line of internet commands from what he showed me, and they all are basically used for sending information to one a buddies PC, and then the buddy sends information back. How would this work with an MMORPG? And also, I think it would be a good idea to drop the first M in MMORPG.

-Exactly-.
One school of thought says "Tell him its a bad idea, tell him his language sucks, and tell him to get a clue."

I say give him a reality check, and wish him well. If he gets discouraged and quits, then he doesnt have the right mentality anyway. If he reaches the point where he says "This language is holding me back. What do I need to do to improve?" Then he's on his way.

Whats the deal with everyone wanting to do MMORPGS?

anyway, back on topic, He needs to learn HTML or Variable++ to make a decent MMORPG [smile].

The thing is with DB is that you are so limited. As you said, the list of functions for internet communication is somewhat sparse. You can probably write a quick chatroom but as far as sending thousands of packets a second... i dunno... I would be far more comfortable with a language that would allow you to get as low level as possible and tweak winsock to your needs.
I also think that your friend is jumping in at the deep end, as others have said, with an MMORPG.

To be fair, DB is built to make quick fun games with little effort. None of these catagories are ticked with MMORPGS. You need a very versatile language like C++.

Give him a quick and dirty lesson in C and see (no pun intended) how he gets on- he needs to slowly move to C and C++.

On a side note: C++ is the most popular (as was C) because it is such a versatile language. Its not the ultimate language but it is one of the most versatile and thus most suited language to games development.

Your friend needs to decide which he wants to be: an artist or a programmer. Both are massive and largely seperate fields, and realistically, he can't become good enough at both of them to make an MMORPG by himself. Even if he could, there wouldn't be enough hours in the day. I also want to point out that if "too hard" is an issue, he shouldn't be looking at an MMORPG.

For an artist, I think DarkBasic is a very good RAD tool that can be used to do some prototying, and mess around with small projects that give quick results. For a programmer, I think it's a total dead end.

Just out of curiosity... is it a hockey MMORPG?

I wonder how hard it'd be to write a DarkBasic compiler/interpreter for Unix, maybe with SDL and OpenGL...

It'd take a little bit more than that. DarkBasic has some kind of basic scene management under the hood, to handle things like frustrum culling and collision detection. DarkBasic can be likened to a scripting system for a basic 3D engine.

Somewhere down the line he will have to write all that code no matter what prog. lang. he chooses. That is what is at stake here since very few people have the motivation to keep on going over many years. It's a lifestyle not something that you pick up on a weekend and do it.

If he mistakes his choice of language as the chief cause of difficulty instead of the scope of his project, then he has bigger problems.

If the language will allow him to achieve what he wants to achieve, then it's valid. Otherwise, he should select another language.

Have you asked him how he's going to do the client/server networking given the primitive networking API you say it exhibits? That's pretty fundamental to an MMO game so he might want to look at it first...

Everyone knows MMORPGs are written in Microsoft SQL!

Toolmaker