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Indeed, do you have a business plan, game design or flow chart? Do you have anything to show us in presentation form... Brainstorming notes, proposed screenshots and or specs of the engine?
I'm hard core DX and app guy. But the time frame and money only makes this a part time gig. Is it worth it?
-Chris
I'm hard core DX and app guy. But the time frame and money only makes this a part time gig. Is it worth it?
-Chris
While your proposal is interesting, you haven't given us enough information about you, your business and what you do, your site is not up, and from your profile I can see you've posted asking for programmers for various jobs before. Currently I'd be worried that this Next Generation engine never gets finished and I'd never be paid for any of my work.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you just need to give us more information, especially for such an ambitious project.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you just need to give us more information, especially for such an ambitious project.
Quote:
Original post by SSJoseph
I need a 3 programmers for my project. (More slots in the future)
The name of this project is called : The Omega Game Engine (working title).
I would prefer it be coded in C++ and built upon DirectX 9.0
and it must have all features of Next gen videogame engines that exist (Source, CryTek, Unreal3, Reality Engine)
-Project's Goal
My aim for this project is to make A Commercial Next-gen quality game engine.
At Indie-Game Developer price ranges (Sort of like Artificial Studios)
You say that you want "all features of next gen videogame engines that exist" and you also want to sell this magic engine at "indie game developer prices"? It's not going to happen. The engines you name are the result of many many professional programmers with experience at this type of thing. Why do you think the engines cost so much to license? Any of the ones you named will take a couple hundred k out of your bank account.
I think you need to realize what huge and complex beasts current next gen engines really are.
Why bother with those or any name brand engines? Using ogre 3d as your renderer and some open source (ones that allow use in commercial products) sound and network engines you can throw an engine together for less then 100$, and it will have the same graphics quality as all those "new" next-gen engines...
However, a games only going to look as good as the talent behind the people that made it... If you get some real talent you'll have a cheap super beutifull engine in no time with out spending cash...
However, a games only going to look as good as the talent behind the people that made it... If you get some real talent you'll have a cheap super beutifull engine in no time with out spending cash...
Quote:
Original post by MiDri
Why bother with those or any name brand engines? Using ogre 3d as your renderer and some open source (ones that allow use in commercial products) sound and network engines you can throw an engine together for less then 100$, and it will have the same graphics quality as all those "new" next-gen engines...
However, a games only going to look as good as the talent behind the people that made it... If you get some real talent you'll have a cheap super beutifull engine in no time with out spending cash...
I'm not so sure that you can compare the unreal 3 engine to ogre 3d. The last I heard, Unreal 3 is pushing all kinds of new technology :D
Quote:
Original post by MiDri
Why bother with those or any name brand engines? Using ogre 3d as your renderer and some open source (ones that allow use in commercial products) sound and network engines you can throw an engine together for less then 100$, and it will have the same graphics quality as all those "new" next-gen engines...
However, a games only going to look as good as the talent behind the people that made it... If you get some real talent you'll have a cheap super beutifull engine in no time with out spending cash...
You have to be kidding...
A game engine is more than just a couple of libraries thrown together.
SSJoseph:
It is illusional to have a team of three at a total cost of $15000 put together an engine worth many man-years of full-time, highly payed professionals (read: lots of $$$). My suggestion - either lower your standards or license some reasonably good engine, which saves you a lot of money and trouble in the end.
Just my .02€,
Pat
I suggest you set your sights on something else. All those engines you listed were created by very skilled people that probably easily average 6 figure income, and have worked many years on them. There's no way you are going to pull a few people off of an online forum and get anything near that quality. Check the gamedev polls, truth is, something like 70-80% of the people around here are hobbyists or otherwise non professionals.
It would take a multi-million dollar budget to create an engine up to the level of those listed.
It would take a multi-million dollar budget to create an engine up to the level of those listed.
Salary Survey, somehwat old but still usefull (and sufficient to destroy your vision [wink] - jk [smile]).
I'm not sure how realistic a semi-professional project like this is since there is a lot of (free!) competition on the market. Look at the DevMaster engine list.
The engines you mentioned are top-notch and based on a decade of experience. The idea of MiDri points in the right direction, he just underestimated the effort [wink].
Multiply his figures by a factor of ten and half a year of development for a fleshed-out system and you're set.
I have a little commercial game development experience (two titles, one goes gold next week the other shipped two years ago [I only worked on some small part of the latter]) and know the requirements of a fully featured system.
The main weakness of the free systems available (like OGRE, which is great BTW) are completeness (e.g. OGRE only handles rendering and is not a game engine) and the tool-chain (editors, exporters for all major [3D] art packages, game asset-pipeline in general) as well as - to some extend - documentation and support. This is a niche that holds great potential, especially if you work closely together with the original authors (and donate!) of OSS libraries.
So my advice would be recruitung an experienced (Indie-) game developer as advisor and project manager and let him/her decide on the set of libraries you'd use to build the system. Next get an experienced artist (advisor mainly) who can describe the problems and needs from the creative perspective.
Once a plan is complete you can hire a few pogrammers experienced with the selected libraries and technologies to put everything together rather quickly (e.g. within a few months). And don't forget documentation and support - once the system is usable, this will be the main part of the work.
I'd also suggest starting a proof-of-concept game from the very beginning, since this will provide you with a complete test-case.
HTH and makes sense,
Pat.
Fell free to bash me - I haven't had that much sleep tonight [wink].
I'm not sure how realistic a semi-professional project like this is since there is a lot of (free!) competition on the market. Look at the DevMaster engine list.
The engines you mentioned are top-notch and based on a decade of experience. The idea of MiDri points in the right direction, he just underestimated the effort [wink].
Multiply his figures by a factor of ten and half a year of development for a fleshed-out system and you're set.
I have a little commercial game development experience (two titles, one goes gold next week the other shipped two years ago [I only worked on some small part of the latter]) and know the requirements of a fully featured system.
The main weakness of the free systems available (like OGRE, which is great BTW) are completeness (e.g. OGRE only handles rendering and is not a game engine) and the tool-chain (editors, exporters for all major [3D] art packages, game asset-pipeline in general) as well as - to some extend - documentation and support. This is a niche that holds great potential, especially if you work closely together with the original authors (and donate!) of OSS libraries.
So my advice would be recruitung an experienced (Indie-) game developer as advisor and project manager and let him/her decide on the set of libraries you'd use to build the system. Next get an experienced artist (advisor mainly) who can describe the problems and needs from the creative perspective.
Once a plan is complete you can hire a few pogrammers experienced with the selected libraries and technologies to put everything together rather quickly (e.g. within a few months). And don't forget documentation and support - once the system is usable, this will be the main part of the work.
I'd also suggest starting a proof-of-concept game from the very beginning, since this will provide you with a complete test-case.
HTH and makes sense,
Pat.
Fell free to bash me - I haven't had that much sleep tonight [wink].
To be clear. What you are trying to do, in 2 years no less, is NOT going to happen, even IF you somehow could pay the programmers what they are really worth.
A more realistic approach would be to try to put together a team that pulls various free middleware together to make a decent game engine. Ogre3d has alot of the capabilities of modern engines graphics-wise, there are free physics libraries and countless other things that could be integrated together to make a working game engine.
You need to know early on that it is unlikely you will be competing with the big dog engines you mentioned. That could be a good thing though, because if you can provide a decent engine using free software at low prices it will appeal more to the developers that can't afford those huge engines.
A more realistic approach would be to try to put together a team that pulls various free middleware together to make a decent game engine. Ogre3d has alot of the capabilities of modern engines graphics-wise, there are free physics libraries and countless other things that could be integrated together to make a working game engine.
You need to know early on that it is unlikely you will be competing with the big dog engines you mentioned. That could be a good thing though, because if you can provide a decent engine using free software at low prices it will appeal more to the developers that can't afford those huge engines.
Simple advice: give it up. Seriously.
You better spend your money on one good programmer and try to get a game off the ground. That way you will have a completed project in your portfolio which is far more valuable than an unfinished 3D engine, of which the regular GameDev member has about three on his harddrive.
You better spend your money on one good programmer and try to get a game off the ground. That way you will have a completed project in your portfolio which is far more valuable than an unfinished 3D engine, of which the regular GameDev member has about three on his harddrive.
Quote:
Original post by SSJoseph
... but you guys are starting to put me down for somthing that with alot of effort on my side it can happen..
That's where you go wrong.
It can't happen, even with the mightiest effort. You are seriously underestimating the skill, knowledge and willpower required to deliver a competitive and bug-free engine.
We are just trying to convince you that your dream is unrealistic, and to save you from huge disappointment and waste of money.
Quote:
Original post by SSJoseph
...
I mean, I don't want to sound agressive now, but you guys are starting to put me down for somthing that with alot of effort on my side it can happen.
...
You aren't listening. In the time it takes you to develop something even remotely comparable to those engines listed, they will be old and outdated technology. It will be a constant battle of being years behind.
All the effort in the world isn't going to make up for a decade+ of a head start they have on you, unless you have many many millions of dollars to hire top notch programmers(which you clearly don't).
Honesty is my top concern. You are 19. You admit to as much on one of your own websites. Now, I dont know many 19 year olds who can afford $15,000,00 after they pay their insurance and for gas...
I just don't see compensation. You want a team to buld you a game engine for next to nothing with the future event of possibly having funds. Just so you can sell it. Nevermind the task athand is well into the thousands of man hours... from quality good coders.
Another issue is time frame. You argue screw the time frame just get it done... however long it takes. With that sort of atitude if you did by some force of science/drugs/hired mob help get the project done.... it would be a year or more outdated... old technology.
I do believe that something like this could be done. From the dedication of a few very talented people who did nothing but eat, sleep and breath a project like this. But not in this fashion.
-Chris... just keepin that pimp hand strong...
I just don't see compensation. You want a team to buld you a game engine for next to nothing with the future event of possibly having funds. Just so you can sell it. Nevermind the task athand is well into the thousands of man hours... from quality good coders.
Another issue is time frame. You argue screw the time frame just get it done... however long it takes. With that sort of atitude if you did by some force of science/drugs/hired mob help get the project done.... it would be a year or more outdated... old technology.
I do believe that something like this could be done. From the dedication of a few very talented people who did nothing but eat, sleep and breath a project like this. But not in this fashion.
-Chris... just keepin that pimp hand strong...
SSJoseph,
PLEASE do NOT let anyone here talk you into "giving up".
When the original DOOM was developed, ID was a shareware company with only a few developers (ok, so, one of them was John Carmack who isn't really human, but you get the point). Nobody here can deny the types of technical boundaries that DOOM pushed. Yes, the market has evolved greatly since then, but the tools and hardware you'll be working with are proporitionally more advanced so what you propose IS possible.
That said, what you are proposing is VERY (<- I can't stress this enough) ambitious and I believe you're approaching this incorrectly.
I do not know what your skill set is, I'm assuming you don't program, but you do have some money to pay and even though it's not a full time salary it's a decent amount, especially to a wide range of very talented (and likely broke) college students that visit this board. Money can take you far :).
I would suggest that, if you're not a programmer, you pick up 1 programmer and don't pay him or her anything - offer a more substantial percentage of the profits. Yes, I know that doing so typically doesn't work here, but the fact that you're willing to pay people down the line will help in that regard. If I'm wrong and you ARE a programmer then fill this role yourself.
Be VERY careful picking this programmer, but you CAN find someone interested in 3D engine development. The programmer needs to lay the base groundwork for an engine so that you can come here (or a site like it) and say "I'm paying $5000 for a programmer to implement the following features of our 3D Engine: XXXXXXX".
I will also suggest that you stick to your target. You said that you want the engine to have all the features of today's next-gen engines. I believe that this will take you about four years minimum and, by that time, today's engines will be "average" or "outdated". This makes your indie price point PERFECT. Bear in mind that most companies that "push the envelope" already HAVE the envelope to push. This is not the case with an engine from scratch. Start by implementing what's out there and build on it later.
Finally, since you're not paying a full-time salary and you're not programming YOU have to make everything other than coding very easy. Everything to do with the website, marketing, recruitment, etc.. has to be done by you.
This is a HUGE project, I wish you luck.
PLEASE do NOT let anyone here talk you into "giving up".
When the original DOOM was developed, ID was a shareware company with only a few developers (ok, so, one of them was John Carmack who isn't really human, but you get the point). Nobody here can deny the types of technical boundaries that DOOM pushed. Yes, the market has evolved greatly since then, but the tools and hardware you'll be working with are proporitionally more advanced so what you propose IS possible.
That said, what you are proposing is VERY (<- I can't stress this enough) ambitious and I believe you're approaching this incorrectly.
I do not know what your skill set is, I'm assuming you don't program, but you do have some money to pay and even though it's not a full time salary it's a decent amount, especially to a wide range of very talented (and likely broke) college students that visit this board. Money can take you far :).
I would suggest that, if you're not a programmer, you pick up 1 programmer and don't pay him or her anything - offer a more substantial percentage of the profits. Yes, I know that doing so typically doesn't work here, but the fact that you're willing to pay people down the line will help in that regard. If I'm wrong and you ARE a programmer then fill this role yourself.
Be VERY careful picking this programmer, but you CAN find someone interested in 3D engine development. The programmer needs to lay the base groundwork for an engine so that you can come here (or a site like it) and say "I'm paying $5000 for a programmer to implement the following features of our 3D Engine: XXXXXXX".
I will also suggest that you stick to your target. You said that you want the engine to have all the features of today's next-gen engines. I believe that this will take you about four years minimum and, by that time, today's engines will be "average" or "outdated". This makes your indie price point PERFECT. Bear in mind that most companies that "push the envelope" already HAVE the envelope to push. This is not the case with an engine from scratch. Start by implementing what's out there and build on it later.
Finally, since you're not paying a full-time salary and you're not programming YOU have to make everything other than coding very easy. Everything to do with the website, marketing, recruitment, etc.. has to be done by you.
This is a HUGE project, I wish you luck.
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