Someone define .NET!

damn, too funny to resist....

#define .NET Microsoft(FUD)

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A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

The Micro$haft BSOD T-Shirt

.NET is more than development tools. As I understand it, it is an attempt to make the entire Internet use a new Microsoft "standard". Meaning it is a form of complete control by Micrsoft. They''re going to make this available to everybody on all kinds of devices.

"Microsoft is committed to the vision of delivering software as a service, both over the Internet and the intranet,"
-http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2000/jul00/07-11.NETframework.asp

-This is Microsoft, pure and simple. delivering THEIR software as a SERVICE (you subscribe to it, and your computer acts like a dumb terminal - yes A DUMB TERMINAL), and completely integrating anything and everything, and, of course, extending it with their own PROPRIETY add-ons, for future incompatibility with competitor''s tools.

-It''s for the better, but Microsoft probably won''t allow competitors. Which is why I won''t use C# until at least one other person or company offers it. Making things work together is wonderful, but there''s nothing wrong with me using, say, Netscape Communicator to view it with. And nothing wrong with using Linux as my OS, either.

Go to http://www.microsoft.com/net/default.asp for more information.

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"Whoever performs only his duty is not doing his duty." --Bahya ibn Pakuda

Disclaimer: I only have half a clue, and as Imagnuman''s quote says, this can be dangerous.

My understanding is that this is a move to renting software under the rouse of ''services'' instead of products. As cobra says, it seems to be a throwback to the days of dumb terminals. Their long term goals seems to be for everything to be centralized; all programs and data on a central server. This server will do all the processing locally, and send information and recieve input from your computer.

They seem to be planning to do this through open standards such as XML.

Good luck in your search for what exactly .NET is. When you find out, let me know will ya?


Mike

.NET is their attempt to finally get on this new-fangled ''Internet'' thing. MS has always been one (or two) steps behind when it comes to actualy _using_ the net for anything usefull. Just look how long it took before they had a useable web browser.

As mentioned above, they''re turning desktops into powerful dumb terminals, with all data and applications stored on a server. Now all-in-all, this has a lot of advantages for corporations: easier maintence and upgrading, less config issues, centralized backup. We''ve tried two-tier systems, and they''re just too damn complicated to keep up and running once you have a few hundred computers going.

However, they seem to think that the Internet is about code libraries, when it''s actually about protocols. So far, .NET is basically a collection of libraries (COM objects) that provide simple internet services: XML parsing, HTTP connections, etc... Oh, and don''t forget C#, their ''not-java'' java language, which also has nothing to do with the Cool project, oh no.

And then there''s the ''service'' business model side of it. How do you know a lot of managers got their hands into this messy pot? I won''t get into this.

What does this mean for game developers? Squat. Unless you''re into making HTTP games, that is. .NET is an application framework, meant for corporations and big industry.

http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133

Great responses by everyone, thanks! The above link posted by rowbot really hits the nail on the head, I think. However, there is still one question left unanswered:

Is Visual Studio.NET the same thing as Visual Studio 7.0? Is this just a renaming? If so, why bother? This just confuses people. Oh, well, I guess it''s better than Visual Studio 200x.

I actually broke down and ordered the beta 1 CD yesterday, so I guess I''ll find out in a couple of days.

It''s glad to know that I''m not the only person that is confused by the vague umbrella catch-all term that is .NET.

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Four young warriors arrive, each holding an ORB...

byrdjb@email.uah.edu

I''ve been working on finding out about .NET for some time now, and the above link reconfims what I''ve been saying here for a while, MS doesn''t SAY anything about .NET (actually I called it rhetorical evangalistic propoganda).

In my opinion MS is scared of two things.
1) They may eventually produce a product that nobody will want to upgrade. If this happens, they are screwed, hence the move to renting software.
2) They are scared as hell of free software and other competition. So what''s the best way to insure competetion doens''t happen? Force a need and dependance on you. This is what they are doing, going after programmers themselves along with the roots of the internet itself (this isn''t the first time MS has done this; their first version of MSN was incompatable with the rest of the internet).

To answer the VS.NET question, my guess is: it''s VS 7.0. Like MS has been doing ever since windows 1.0, they are hooking developers first; for an OS is nothing without supporting software.

I''m glad not everyone is eating this stuff up. Yes, what we need are ''web services''. Now, wtf is a ''web service''?

There is actually one person that can answer all these questions, but he ain''t talking. MSN12b, fill us in!


Mike

If VS.NET == VS 7.0, then I''m afraid MS may have dropped the ball on this one. I think that many of you will agree with me when I say that VS 7.0 is long overdue. All this .NET vapor is just pushing it back further. There are only a few things that I''m really looking forward too in VS7.0:

• Common dev environment across all languages. I fell in love with the dev environment in Visual J++ (which will be the basis for the new environment) and I really want to use it with C++.
  
• Common runtime library type thingie. All of the languages can link down to the same set of stuff. I don''t know all the details of this, and if someone can explain it clearly, please fill me in, but this, combined with the above item, can potentially make mixed language development really easy. Wanna do your UI in VB and your "guts" in VC++, go ahead. Again, correct my terminology if I''m saying this wrong. I''m assuming this is a COM type thing.
  
• New resource editor. I''m assuming this is what "Windows Forms" may be all about. The resource/dialog editor in VC++ is old and creaky. It''s really bad when you are trying to put lots of custom controls/ActiveX stuff on a form. Blargh. Maybe laying out non-trivial dialogs will be just as easy in VC++ as it is in VB with VStudio7.0.
  
• Tighter ANSI/ISO C++ adherence now that it is finalized. Better STL implementation, and handling of templates and other "newer" C++ features in general.
  

Now, putting in all the .NET stuff (fluff?) is just causing the ship dates for these core usability features to slip further and further away. C#? Who cares? "Web Services"? Who cares? Put out the above stuff as VS7.0, and save .NET for VS8.0, says I. What does every one else think?

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Four young warriors arrive, each holding an ORB...

byrdjb@email.uah.edu

It totally agree with UberXenon. First they have to totally support the ANSI C/C++ specification and then they could release fancy stuff like .NET. I for one am waiting for complete support of the ANSI C/C++, can''t wait for the "export" keyword to be supported, since I work a lot with templates.

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Mail me, Drago''s OpenGL Website

I thought that VC++6 was ANSI C++ complient? Or am I misreading all the comments??

I personally think that ASP (Application Server Protocol) tech is rubbish. Where the F*** is the home user in all of this? Do they really think that anyone but businesses are gonna be interested?? Fools if they do.

btw, It is, apparently, possible to mix C++ and VB files together in VS.NET.... I read a post from someone who''d been to one of their conferences where they demo''d an early version...

Jack;

It''s good to see that Microsoft is keeping the developers informed!

From what I''ve gathered, the NET beta 1 is something similar to the Platform SDK - it''s an application framework for developers to use for creating compatible software with microsoft''s NET standards.

As part of this whole NET thing, MS is also planning to release their new C# language. They reckon it blends the best bits of Java and C++ together; however, it''s basically Java with platform specific components - MS''s answer to the problems it had with Sun / Java. In a comparison of Java and C#, there''s almost no difference at all - about two lines were changed in a simple "Hello World" code example.

As for a new version of Visual Studio... I have no idea. I agree that VS6 is now very dated - it lacks a great deal of functionality which MS now recommends that developers MUST use. I think that this is in the pipeline... but as we all know, MS has a BLOODY LONG PIPELINE! However, they already have versions of all the major Server products running some form of NET compliance... but I seem to recall that there was something special about the new SQL Server.NET.... There are also NET versions of Office and Windows under way.

However, if MS is able to fully implement the entirity of their NET stratergy, then we''re all in for big trouble. If we thought that they had a monopily in the OS market (which they most certainly do not IMHO), then allowing them to create a high-speed network for ASP, and selling it off for "content providers" (ie programmers) is may beyond that. I typically don''t mind what MS get''s up to, as there are plenty of better alternatives (OpenGL for DirectX, Linux for Windows etc), but if we are all forced to subscribe to MS products, then I think we will loose a great deal more than what is initiall apparent.

Just lots and lots of my 5c''s (Australia got rid of it''s 1c and 2c coins a while ago )

Simon Wilson,
XEOS Digital Development

I'm really looking forward to .NET. Having the operating system API be encapsulated with .NET classes is a great idea. This allows any programming language that understands MSIL to utilize the common API. No more firing up the API Toolshed/Guide (allapi.net to remember how to Declare that critical Win32 function in VB

.NET is an exciting new technology and it is about time that Microsoft has made the move to consolidate the way developers interface and access the operating systems services (and other program functionality.) I'm still getting up to speed on what Microsoft terms as managed code and unmanaged code (managed and unamanaged pointers) and how legacy programs will be handled.

C# looks to be positioning itself as the language of choice when working with .NET. Will C# be used in games? I'm not sure - it all depends on performance. Since COM/COM++ will seamlessly work with .NET developers should be able to access DirectX from C#. I still think most developers looking for cross-platform development will use C++, especially if they want to port games over to the XBox, PS2 etc.

One misconception about C# is that it is Microsoft's proprietary language replacement for Java. The big difference is that Microsoft has submitted C# to a standards committee. This will make it a relatively open language. Sun on the other hand chose to keep Java for itself and not allow a standards committee to control it. IMHO thats a bad thing.

Enough rambling - I just ordered the .NET Beta 1 CD (I think the SDK I have is pre-beta. I just downloaded it for the docs on the MSIL instruction set guide, EE file format etc).

I'm looking forward to C#. Finally a VB-like development language for all us C++ programmers

Dire Wolf

Edited by - Dire.Wolf on November 17, 2000 2:54:46 AM