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You think your problem is [solved] ?

Started by Emmanuel Deloget Jun 20, 2006 at 6:30 AM 27 replies 6.6k views
Original Post
Emmanuel Deloget
Emmanuel Deloget
Putting a [solved] tag at the beginning or at the end of your post title sounds cool, but really, you shouldn't do this. There are actually a few valid reasons for this.
  1. if you ask us to find an answer to your particular problem, are you sure that you are competent enough to decide whether the problem is solved or not? For example, let's say that your question is "I did a console program, but whenever I execute it from VStudio, the console window disapear and I can't see anything. What should I do?". Then you get the answer "put system("PAUSE"); at the end of your program". You test the solution, it works and then you decide that your problem is solved. You are plain wrong. It seems that your immediate problem is solved, but this is not a good way to do it, and it would require a lengthier explaination (in the case, the correct thing to do is to put a breakpoint before the end of the program). You might think "where is the problem with the solved tag?". Well, who want to help someone who already have solved his problem? When we try to help (by answering your questions in the Beginners forum or in any other forum), we obvioulsy don't read all the threads. We focus on threads that might have some interest, and solved threads are not interesting (because, yeah, you know, you solved your problem). Of course, the result is that noone qualified enough will give you the correct answer to your question, and you would have learned a very bad habit.
  2. Someone might have a slightly different problem, and the solution of his problem might not be exactly the same. If you put a solved tag he will start another thread, but if you don't he will be more likely to add anotehr post in your thread - obviously, this can't be bad since the coming answers might lighten some other obscure points that deal with the same subject.
  3. Even if the problem is correctly solved, some important discussion might arise from the different answers. For example, if Fruny gives some very good hint about the SCL, someone might ask another question ("why do you use tranform()? You would be able to do a loop instead"), and the discussion is AS IMPORTANT AS your problem - maybe not for you, but since everybody is here to learn something, discussions about the tiny details of a particular solution might help a lot. Again, putting a [solved] tag in your thread title prevent this discussion to arise because your subject is considered "closed".
  4. Frankly, I'd prefer to get a "thank you for your help" in another post in the thread than to have a somewhat laconic [solved] tag in the title. Of course, I don't really care about whether you thank me or not (I don't ask anything at all - my goal is to help, not to be honored as your savior)
Of course, I encourage you to not put a [solved] tag, but I can't enforce this. Now that I post this, I realize that my English is rather... strange. Lots of gramatical errors and bad spelling. Please, forgive me. Wow, I created 10th threads. I'm t3h F100d3r [smile]
LessBread
LessBread
Your English is fine, with the exception that noone should be no one. [grin]

I agree with your point by the way.
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
mikeman
mikeman
I agree. Putting a [solved] tag is like saying "don't post here anymore". Let's not mention that sometimes the OP thinks his problem is solved, but then realizes that it's not, and so the tag flunctuates from [solved] to [unsolved] and back(Alpha_ProgDes, I'm looking at you:) ).
jpetrie
jpetrie
I concur.
Pipo DeClown
Pipo DeClown
It does help when someone is searching for answers and doesn't have to wade through hundreds of relevant posts. It narrows the search down to just a few [solved] topics.
jbadams
jbadams
Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
It does help when someone is searching for answers and doesn't have to wade through hundreds of relevant posts. It narrows the search down to just a few [solved] topics.

That may make it a little easier, but it also increases the damage done by cases like point #1. I don't think the tradeoff is of a particularly great value given that.
- Jason Astle-Adams
Emmanuel Deloget
Emmanuel Deloget
Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
It does help when someone is searching for answers and doesn't have to wade through hundreds of relevant posts. It narrows the search down to just a few [solved] topics.

That would be great - if the solution is correct :)
jpetrie
jpetrie
Quote:

The only one I don't get is #2. I would think that people would check [solved] threads before posting a new thread than they would a non-[solved] thread. Of course, this does mean that any damage would be spread more if the answer is wrong.


Maybe, but "solved" threads will tend to be pushed off the front pages of the boards, since less people will reply to them (and nobody ever actually uses the search feature :D).
Alpha_ProgDes
Alpha_ProgDes
Quote:
Original post by mikeman
I agree. Putting a [solved] tag is like saying "don't post here anymore". Let's not mention that sometimes the OP thinks his problem is solved, but then realizes that it's not, and so the tag flunctuates from [solved] to [unsolved] and back(Alpha_ProgDes, I'm looking at you:) ).

[razz] [grin]

yeah i know.

I don't think it's a "don't post here" sticker. for me, it's a "look at what i did" sign.

I think we should all promote: [solved] means LOOK not ignore.

vote for me in 2008 [smile]

Beginner in Game Development?  Read here. And read here.  
Pipo DeClown
Pipo DeClown
Okay I found the essential reading why I disagree with your rant: is there any proof that the tag is actually saying "Dont come in!!" and not "Come in, this is a 'complete topic' with a happy ending!"?

I found myself looking at solved topics in the Beginners forum more often.
jollyjeffers
jollyjeffers
Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
Okay I found the essential reading why I disagree with your rant: is there any proof that the tag is actually saying "Dont come in!!" and not "Come in, this is a 'complete topic' with a happy ending!"?
Admittedly I've not looked into it here on GDNet, but the MSDN forums are big on the "answer tagging" mentality. I've found that it does kill some threads that would otherwise have gone on to related but informative discussions. Basically its the difference between a "Question & Answer" or a "Discussion Forum" - check the page titles for GDNet and you'll see which seems to be preferred [wink]

Then again, in the context of the MSDN forums, we moderators (+MS staff) can always untag wrong/bad "answers" to avoid the "this thread is now finished" scenario; but that does rely on the powers that be spotting it...

Jack
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Way Walker
Way Walker
Quote:
Original post by jpetrie
and nobody ever actually uses the search feature :D


Because the search feature doesn't let me search properly. Basically, I can get the same result from searching for "my problem" as I would from just going to google and searching "my problem site:www.gamedev.net". I'd find it more useful if it would allow me to only search certain forums, sort by date, etc. I also have this irrational, but still present, dislike for it because it doesn't fit the theme of the rest of the site.

Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
Okay I found the essential reading why I disagree with your rant: is there any proof that the tag is actually saying "Dont come in!!" and not "Come in, this is a 'complete topic' with a happy ending!"?

I found myself looking at solved topics in the Beginners forum more often.


What you said is exactly the problem: it implies a "happy ending". Thread done, problem solved, may as well be closed and made sticky for all to read. I read them, and I usually get the feeling that the OP took the first solution that treated the symptom. Sometimes I see a few rebels who posted to the "solved" topic with ideas that treat the underlying problem, but see no indication that the OP (or anyone else) ever saw them. I don't post in them because I do get the impression that nobody's listening.
Emmanuel Deloget
Emmanuel Deloget
Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
Okay I found the essential reading why I disagree with your rant: is there any proof that the tag is actually saying "Dont come in!!" and not "Come in, this is a 'complete topic' with a happy ending!"?

I found myself looking at solved topics in the Beginners forum more often.


It is not a "don't come in" tag, it is more a "I don't need anything more" tag. I (and I suppose I'm not the only one in this case) spend a lot of time answering posts on either the GP forum or the Beginners forum. I don't have the time to read everything (ya know, I have a day job :P) thus I end to chose to read threads where my input can be valuable1. If you tell me that your problem is solved, that's ok, fine, I'll check another thread instead :)



1: I mean... Oh, well, I don't mean I am always right and that everything I say is worth reading. Let's say that sometimes, my answers are ok :)
Pipo DeClown
Pipo DeClown
Well, I'm sure those happen with or without a solved-tag. There's no causal relation?
kSquared
kSquared
Stickificated for the time being for your mutual edification.
- k2 "Choose a job you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life." — Confucius"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will get you everywhere." — Albert Einstein"Money is the most egalitarian force in society. It confers power on whoever holds it." — Roger Starr{General Programming Forum FAQ<
ApochPiQ
ApochPiQ
I agree with the point of this thread.


Basically, I think the real risk is that the OP never shows back up and learns from all the posts that come after the "first solution." I'm fairly active in the forums here, and I've noticed that it seems like the majority of the time, the OP takes the first answer there is, and never comes back to the thread. And, in most of those cases, a useful - and important - discussion occurs after that first "solution."

In my mind, using [solved] tags promotes the impression that discussions can "end" because all of the useful information is posted. IMHO that's not a good impression at all, because you never know when someone else will show up with some good insight.


I don't think it's as simple as "adding the tag immediately kills discussion" or whatever - sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. Instead, I think the problem is largely related to the culture that will develop around the site. If we leave [solved] tags floating about everywhere, it reinforces the idea that discussions are "done" once the OP thinks his question is solved. Over time this will tend to create a culture that turns into an interactive FAQ instead of a community.

On the flip side, if we can promote the opposite idea (i.e. that discussions are here for the mutual benefit of more people than just the OP, and that useful discussion can and often will occur after the "first solution") then we'll create a very enriching culture, where the knowledgeable members are better equipped to share that knowledge with everyone else.

I suspect there are some proactive steps we can take to help develop that culture, but at the very least discouraging [closed] tags should be a good start.
MatrixCubed
MatrixCubed
On the other hand, posting a [solved] tag in the subject line allows for forum searchers to focus on threads which might contain a veritable solution. How many times has anyone done a search and read through countless threads, only to find a decent solution to what they were looking for after 30 minutes of digging? A [solved] tag might cut this research time down.

I vote for [solved] tags
Spoonbender
Spoonbender
Quote:
Original post by MatrixCubed
On the other hand, posting a [solved] tag in the subject line allows for forum searchers to focus on threads which might contain a veritable solution. How many times has anyone done a search and read through countless threads, only to find a decent solution to what they were looking for after 30 minutes of digging? A [solved] tag might cut this research time down.

But it doesn't improve your odds of getting a *good* solution. It just means you stop searching after the first "solution" to your problem, whether or not it's actually a worthwhile solution. How is that a good thing?
The point the OP made was that the guy asking the question is not qualified to decide whether a problem has been "[solved]". He might think it is, and when you do a search and find the topic because it has [solved] in the title, you also think it is. But that just means crappy solutions can spread all the faster. [wink]

I think it's a very valid point. Putting a [solved] tag on the title tends to kill any discussion that might have been going on, and that's not usually a good thing. If people are still discussing, it's because there's disagreement about what the solution should be. Killing that, and sayings "Screw this, I'll just take the first solution that was suggested" isn't very useful, nor encouraging for those who actually took time to answer the question.
Pipo DeClown
Pipo DeClown
How can YOU decide whether the first tagged (and you assume "incomplete") solution found, does NOT lead to the finder being able to understand the problem -by himself-. If all that someone needs, is to see a few lines of code to understand the problem, then why hinder (by not using solved-tags)?

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