We need some programmers!!!

You would be better posting in the Help Wanted forum, using the template there.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster lol No thats not how it works the experienced programmer, who knows what he's doing builds the framework then far far far down the road he gets some artists to draw the graphics for him Not the other way around this way you know that theres an actual solid codebase and the project isn't doomed to fail for lack of actual ... program

You're not a real life game programmer, are you...?

A good game starts with defining the gameplay itself, the actual game, which the_unforgotten may already have. Without a solid game design, even the best of programmers can do what he wants but he will never produce a cool and playable game.

Once game design it established, all the disciplines will start simultaineously on production: programmers need art to test mechanics, art need an engine to tweak their models, scripters or other coders use the engine to create the gameplay, etc.

Building an engine without knowing what the gameplay will be like, is like building a new type of car - fancy, F1-like, fast, etc - only to find out it should be used off road...

CipherCraft

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Original post by Anonymous Poster there was a fun comic strip someone around here made about the situation... anyone have a link still?

Seriously though you'll find it very difficult to find any programmers good enough to actualy make an MMORPG to actualy do it because if they're that experienced they already know that this project is doomed to fail. I'm not trying to pee on your camp fire but this thing happens time after time after time around here. Really I recommend you do something much smaller. You can still make it online if you want but restrict it to a simple game with limited players. MMORPG's really should only be attempted by big teams of proffesionals with lots of money behind them, and even a lot of those dont make it.

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Original post by CipherCraft Building an engine without knowing what the gameplay will be like, is like building a new type of car - fancy, F1-like, fast, etc - only to find out it should be used off road...

That's not true. A good general purpose game engine can be used to create anything from a card game to an FPS. Most engines aren't good (including the commercially available ones), and most aren't general purpose, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

From my experience you can build a very basic MMO engine in about 3 weeks using the .NET 2.0 framework. Given you have a lot of spare time and can actually program the networking classes are very simple and straight forward to use. Still though it takes so much code to get a large dynamic world running, that's if you can get everything else working. I'd say start very simple try to get a client server set up first in what ever language you using. That in itself can be over whelming. Then get it to allow people to register and login. If you can get that done the rest seems to fall in to place from what I've seen.

Moving to Help Wanted. You will need to edit your post to fit the mandatory posting template for that forum, or the thread will be deleted within 24 hours.

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Original post by JasonBlochowiak That's not true. A good general purpose game engine can be used to create anything from a card game to an FPS.

??

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Original post by Sirisian From my experience you can build a very basic MMO engine in about 3 weeks using the .NET 2.0 framework.

I would say a basic MO engine could be created, but an MMO requires serious design and implementation efforts, not to mention expensive hardware.

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Original post by CipherCraft Quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster lol No thats not how it works the experienced programmer, who knows what he's doing builds the framework then far far far down the road he gets some artists to draw the graphics for him Not the other way around this way you know that theres an actual solid codebase and the project isn't doomed to fail for lack of actual ... program You're not a real life game programmer, are you...? A good game starts with defining the gameplay itself, the actual game, which the_unforgotten may already have. Without a solid game design, even the best of programmers can do what he wants but he will never produce a cool and playable game. Once game design it established, all the disciplines will start simultaineously on production: programmers need art to test mechanics, art need an engine to tweak their models, scripters or other coders use the engine to create the gameplay, etc. Building an engine without knowing what the gameplay will be like, is like building a new type of car - fancy, F1-like, fast, etc - only to find out it should be used off road... CipherCraft

Anonomous Poser knows exactly what he's talking about. Tell me ONE programmer here that says, "I'm going to make a game...then later down the road, i'll decide the gameplay and the plot and the genre of the game." It just doesn't happen. What annonomous poster was saying (and I agree 100%) is that you need to come up with a genre and general gameplay, in addition to finding a game designer. THEN the programmer will make a rough outline of the engine. AT THAT POINT IN TIME, you develope a team and along the rode refine what the gameplay is going to be like, controls, art style etc...So, here's the path I suggest to making a game project work:

1. There must be at least one programmer
2. That programmer must team up with a game designer (unless he thinks he is creative enough to think of his own game idea)
3. The programmer creates a rough outline of the engine (sometimes, this would be of NO HELP whatsoever to anyone but programmers)
4. Programmer and designer go on the look out for more team members (this is the part where artists come in)
5. The whole team (as a whole, mainly under the direction of the lead designer) talks about exactly how the game should work, what the controls should be, the art style, lvl of realism etc...

From this point on you could do a lot of different things...but the first 5 steps are manditory IMO (or something very close to it) You can't be an artist and decide "Oh...I'm going to make a game...are there any programmers interested?" If you're an artist, you should look for a team to join (or just sell individual pieces of art).


To original poster:
I don't mean to discourage you, but I would suggest a few things (any one of these is fine; some are easier than others):
1. Learn to program
2. Find a game designer to help you out (like, instead of saying "looking for programmers" say "looking for designer to help me put a game together)
3. Join a project already in production
4. Sell your work individually and for a set price.

Good luck!!!

[Edited by - bballmitch on August 21, 2006 10:58:30 PM]

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Original post by bballmitch Tell me ONE programmer here that says, "I'm going to make a game...then later down the road, i'll decide the gameplay and the plot and the genre of the game." It just doesn't happen.

Well I and my two partners (programmers also) for university senior project did exactly that only a few months ago for what ended up being an online 3D RPG.

Also, I did not see where the AP said anything about getting a designer. She said that a programmer writes an engine then gets artists.

Anyway, there is no magical formula to making an independent game. That is what makes the whole process so much fun.

As for the OP, do you have any details to share with us? I am certain you'll find at least a few members here interested in assisting you but you'll need to make your aims a little more apparent.

Cheers.

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Original post by kordova Quote: Original post by JasonBlochowiak That's not true. A good general purpose game engine can be used to create anything from a card game to an FPS. ??

What's your question?

There are a large number of components that are similar to all games, like: Input, sound/music, scene management and display, data management, logic skeletons, etc.

Like I said, most engines don't get it right - they're either overly abstract for no good reason, or not nearly abstract enough. That's largely due to design inexperience, and a lack of time to rework things that were gotten wrong.

Wow, reading this brings back so many memmories of when I first started, hahahahaha.

Thank you again for reminding me of my good time before I got burned out. I've invested almost 300 programing hours (not including studing/learning) and I've got a game engine which is a minute of fun,... yes I did the MMO route too. Couldn't get any one to work with me.

*salutes* Good luck, and remember, good communication is the key.