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Ecosystem Game

Started by Numsgil 12 replies 2.8k views
Original Post
Numsgil
Numsgil
(edit: forum set up here) There isn't a team or game name yet Brief description: I'm working on a "simple" simulation game somewhere between SimEarth, Sandbox of God, and maybe a little Spore. My goals are threefold: 1. Create a game that I can show off as a portfolio asset when I try to get a job. Specifically a relatively simple 3D simulation game. 2. Create a proof-of-concept for fun, interactive Artificial Life. Most artificial life takes a long time to generate anything interesting, longer than most players' attention spans. Most ALife sims are relatively stagnant once they settle down due to the lack of random stimuli. Many sims are abstract and difficult for lay people to relate to. Very few sims attempt to create a complex ecosystem, instead relying on a small handful of species interacting. My goal is to simulate a relativley realistic ecosystem of interacting and adapting species. The player would try to increase biodiversity and eventually create sentience but wouldn't be able to do this directly. Instead they'd have to influence the species by changing the world in abiotic ways (throw some meteors down, raise a volcano, lower the water table, raise a mountain to create a desert, change a windpattern to create drought or flood, etc.) If sentients ever develop then the player can use religion to alter the ecosystem at a higher level (initiate a war and maybe the sentients clear a few forests. If there are multiple sentient species, making one stronger, perhaps by teaching them metalworking, can fundamentally change the basic ecosystem (Humans prefer grassland, squirrels would prefer forests, etc.)) My theory is that evolutionary jumps occur when species are taxed, so I'd like to create a model that demonstrates that idea. If the player has to decimate a civilization to push the sentients to develop to the next level, that would create an interesting dynamic I think. The ecosystem would be modelled from the ground up, with a simplistic representation of bacteria and algae, and building up the food web from there. Most research I've done into real life artificial ecosystems suggests this method provides the most stable results. I'd also like to model the transition of grasslands to forests as the ecosystems mature, followed by their destruction by fire, man, etc. (There's a term for this but I forget it at the moment). Animals would have to adapt to the changing ecosystem, which in turn changes to adapt to them. The player would hopefully provide the random stimuli that would keep the simulation from stagnating. Adaptation can be sped up, I believe, if the organisms' characteristics are value based instead of open ended scripts. By which I mean create a numerical score for the creature's ability to hunt or its propensity to herd, and have that change, instead of creating a scripting system and program in those behaviors and let the script mutate. I also would like to experiment with Lamarckian Evolution instead of natural selection, which some initial research has hinted allows populations to adapt faster. The goal is to crunch the evolutionary window to something that's a little more at speed with a player's attention span. I have some other thoughts on this matter, but this is already getting long and unorganized. If anyone is interested, I'll try to write them down and link to them. Basically the biology won't be more complex than Freshman University Bio, so it should be easy enough to grasp for most players with a little refresher information, easily enough encapsulated in a tutorial or something similar. 3. Play around with procedural content creation. Most of the visually impressive results I've seen have come from procedural content. I don't just mean dirt textures and heightmaps, but procedural tree mesh generation, clouds, etc. I'd like to play around in this regard, experimenting with different systems and techniques. I've done quite a bit of research in this area, but not alot of coding. This goal is least important on my agenda. Target aim: Opensource Compensation: Evenly split if there's ever a dime to split. Technology: Although I'd settle for a 2D ortho view, I'd really like to do a combination Orthographic and 3D view. Initiate global changes in the orthographic view and examine the world you've created in 1st person. I'd like this to be a relatively simple tech demo as well as a game. Most of the procedural content I've played with is only really useful in a 3D view. This would be coded in C++, and probably use 3rd party libraries where practical to do so. Beyond this I haven't really thought about it. Talent needed: My work thus far on this project has taught me that I can either make a tech demo or a simple game, I can't do both at the same time. So I'm looking for another like minded programmer to work on the tech demo side of things, allowing me to concentrate on the game side of things. What I'm mainly looking for is a programmer who can work on the engine while I work on the content. This programmer would be responsible for the 3D engine (loading and displaying models), sound and music (playing them, not making them), multithreading, and just about any other hardware task that a game like this would require. They'd be responsible for picking which outside libraries to use since they'd be using them more than I would. Also, my overall code organisation is also a little weak, so I'd appreciate someone who could help me in this regard, someone with strong code organization ability and experience. A lesser goal, but if anyone is interested in working with me on the content side of things, ie: the ALife simulation, procedural content, etc. I'd be willing to have a designer or two work with me. As a final note, I'm in Eastern time in the United States, so I would prefer someone around that time zone. In my experience it's just too difficult to coordinate people that aren't awake at the same time. ;) Team structure: Since you already know what I'm looking for, I'll explain what I'll be doing. I'll be in charge of game logic and content creation. Specifically: UI creation, game logic and the core simulation (animals reproducing, eating, and dying), procedural model and texture creation, and anything else that falls under the category "content". Later in the project I'm sure I'll be trying to find a modeller and musician for content, so it won't all be programmer art :P I'll also be in charge of any web presence, unless of course there's someone else on the team with better web skills than me (which wouldn't be hard ;) ) These roles aren't absolute of course. I may want to work on the engine from time to time and you may want to work on the game logic, this is just fine, I'm just primarily looking for someone who's more interested in the technical side of things the way I'm more interested in the creative side of things. In the event that I have a few (say, 2 or 3) candidates that I think would work on this project, I'll elect one as the lead engine developer and have the others be subordinate to the lead. I don't know how to say this without sounding overbearing, but I'm the project lead, and while I'll respect your control over technical aspects of the project, I have final say in a conflict. My Credentials For something like this you deserve to know my current experience and skills. 1. I'm a pretty good C++ programmer if I do say so myself. I've been programming C++ since middle school, for about 8+ years now. 2. I've completed a few simple games and simulations, but nothing of large scope except for: 3. Darwinbots, an Artificial Life simulator. I've been a (arguably) lead developer for Darwinbots for about a year and a half, although a great deal many people have contributed to the project. Specifically this gives me experience in Artificial Life and alot of the subtler points, what works and what doesn't from evolution's point of view, etc. Darwinbots has given me the confidence to attempt something a little different, something a little more "fun" and a little less "science"-y. 4. My OpenGL skills are intermediate, with my most recent OpenGL project being an interactive 1st person heightmap viewer (you can change the heights using meteors you drop). This included texturing and lighting. 5. I've done some physics programming for darwinbots. This project won't really need that, but it does give a glimpse into my math and simulation capabilities. 6. I've programmed quite a few organisms for Darwinbots in its scripting language, so I do have some experience in AI and (custom) scripting languages and parsing. 7. I feel quite confidant that I can create the content side of the game if I can find someone to create the engine. Contacts: You can contact me either through email (preffered): Numsgil2002@yahoo.com or you can post here, or contact me through MSN: (Numsgil2002@yahoo.com) or you can reply in this topic, and I'll keep an eye on it. Feedback: ENCOURAGING ONLY [Edited by - Numsgil on September 16, 2006 5:53:12 PM]
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
jbadams
jbadams
Quote:
Original post by Numsgil
(note, where C is reffered to, I mean C plus plus, the forum isn't accepting the plus sign for some reason)
It works, it just doesn't show up in the preview for some reason, along with a few other symbols. It's a known bug, but I don't know if/when a fix is planned.
- Jason Astle-Adams
kiome
kiome
Have you considered using open source 3D-engines like Ogre3D instead of investing the resources needed to develop your own engine?

It is a very interesting project, hope you will find talented people to join you on this.

Good Luck!
My Blog
Numsgil
Numsgil
Yes, I imagine I would use libraries like Ogre, but to be truthful they have a learning curve that I don't really want to deal with, and then you still have to physically link them to your game objects inside the code, dealing with various libraries' APIs (graphics, audio, etc.). Like I said above, I feel I can either work on the tech demo side of things or the content side, I can't do both at the same time.

Which is why I'm looking for a technically minded programmer to deal with the various libraries involved so I can concentrate on the content. Preferably someone already familiar with Ogre or CrystalSpace or Irrlicht.
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
kiome
kiome
I wasn't suggesting that you should implement the 3D engine, I fully understand that you want to concentrate on game design and ai scripting and that you are looking for a technically minded programmer to do the other part.
It is a good decision.

But I thought that the idea of developing a whole 3D engine from scratch would put a lot of good programmers off.
Implementing an existing engine makes the project a lot more attrative to those who are already familiar with the technology.

And again, good luck in finishing the product, I am looking forward to it.
My Blog
Numsgil
Numsgil
Thanks ;)
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
Numsgil
Numsgil
I have someone interested in helping me with the content but I still need an engine programmer.

I'm willing to accept anyone who knows or is willing to learn a 3D engine and has an interest in biology inspired games and simulations.

I really believe in this project, and I'll learn a 3D engine API if I have to.
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
Numsgil
Numsgil
I've set up a forum here and posted the broader strokes of what I'm thinking.

I've found two other people who've expressed interest in helping me with the content, but I still need someone to handle the engine. I'm leaning towards Ogre3D. If interested, you can either post in the forum, reply here, or email me.
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
ambershee
ambershee
Take a look at the Creatures series of games, that may offer some inspiration.
Numsgil
Numsgil
I've actually played creatures, so yeah, it's influenced my thinking a little.
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
Ragnar
Ragnar
Do you need a composer?
Numsgil
Numsgil
Eventually, I would imagine. Not really at the moment though. Sort of painting the car before building it ;)

Still you're welcome to join the forum here and comment on any ideas and add your own.
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation
eLIET
eLIET
I really like the idea of a ecosystem game, but it's very complicated. Make sure you'll have enough ppl for it when you start building. You'll need a lot of artists to make your models and textures, and enough programmers to create a game this complicated. Also it's important to not let the people in your team communicate too much during the early stages (by sharing msn or aim names), it might cause confusion and may break your whole team apart. This is a really complicated game, properably more complicated than most MMORPG's, and a lot of those don't get finished. But i do wish you the best of luck, the game idea is certainly original and it sounds really good!

Good luck with the game m8, if you need any help or tips (if you even care about tips from a retard like me xD ) you can add me to msn; thomasvandenessenburg*AT*hotmail*DOT*com
Numsgil
Numsgil
The complication level is going to depend a great deal on the sophistication of individual elements. The games I'm pulling from: SimEarth, Sandbox of God, had few developers. This is of course a little more complex than either of those two, but most of that complexity is supposed to be emergent.

I also don't necessarily need a unique model for every single possible creature. Having even 10 different base meshes colored differently (one purple, one green, etc.) would probably serve my purposes just fine, if look a little silly.

Last, since the game evolution easily fits into an iterative approach, it should be fairly easy to start with a solid backbone of a game and add various things to see the result.
[size=2]Darwinbots - [size=2]Artificial life simulation

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