Hold on there hot shot, calm down and relax.

First of all, if your intent was to bend and twist the human anatomy into a missproportioned fusion. Then your piece does not communicate your intent very well, indeed it looks much like many amatureish attempts at drawing in the generic anime/manga style. The pose you have chosen your figure to represent doesn't support the missproportions you gave her. Study the artists work you are takeing inspiration from, even with the anatomical inaccuricies his work still communicated that style was his intent...Yours doesn't come across that way.

Second, this isn't the place to pull artistic eliteisam. There are hundreds of other places for that, where you may find peeps more accepting of your intentions. In any event learn to be more humble, and far less confrontantional, in the face or critisisam...Most of the time, even renown artists will even tell you, that an artist ego often gets in the way when faceing a critical eye. Nobody likes a A--Hole whom thinks thier S--T don't stink.

Third, its cool that you have won all those awards and all, that you have 7 years drawing experience behind you. But perfection takes a lifetime, there is ALWAYS room to improve.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=806566&uid=549075

Check those out if you get time. They arn't my best, nor latest...and I still have MUCH room for improvement...but they represent what I can do on a normal day with a deadline.

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Original post by Kest Quote: Original post by Talroth True, but you should know and be able to draw 'correctly' before claiming that you are doing some new art 'style'. There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image.

I agree with this. In fact, most well-known artists were initially ridiculed for their style. Most artists , however, are not able to maintain and fruitify their vision during their whole lifetime . Those that did are now famous.
Have you observed the anatomy of a Picasso figure ? ^_^.
Cheers.

(Note: I'm not an artist, I'm a game designer, but I saw this in the Recent Threads and thought it was interesting)

You keep mentioning Final Fantasy art, I'm assuming you mean Yoshitaka Amano's amazing works.

Amano has a perfect grasp of human anatomy. His pieces know exactly when and where to bend the rules to make the characters pose absolutely perfect. This picture does not convey this same knowledge. It is a good piece, for an amateur piece, and you may very well have won some awards in school competitions and such. But while you are proud of it you need to be able to take the criticism, because it is not a perfect piece.

Good luck, and I hope you take the time to improve your knowledge of art, because the talent is there.

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Original post by Marmin Quote: Original post by Kest Quote: Original post by Talroth True, but you should know and be able to draw 'correctly' before claiming that you are doing some new art 'style'. There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style. If those imperfections conflict with other elements in his style, then that should be changed. But it's very difficult to determine how consistent his style is while only looking at this one image. I agree with this. In fact, most well-known artists were initially ridiculed for their style. Most artists , however, are not able to maintain and fruitify their vision during their whole lifetime . Those that did are now famous. Have you observed the anatomy of a Picasso figure ? ^_^. Cheers.

Which figure? The cubist ones that he is famous for? Or his earlier anatomicly correct ones that taught him how/and how to break the human anatomical structure? Or the figures in his blue period? those in his rose period? What Talroth stated, and you quoted, was the artistic path Picasso took...Hell, even Jackson Pollock took a simular route.

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Original post by MSW http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=806566&uid=549075 Check those out if you get time. They arn't my best, nor latest...and I still have MUCH room for improvement...but they represent what I can do on a normal day with a deadline.

Those are some groovy works, MSW.

At NO point did I intend to aid baller in his development, my issue, indeed the entire reason I posted, was to address your statement that there is no such thing as incorrect art. I do not believe I have stated or shown intent otherwise.

Additionally, statements where you call his inaccuracies 'style' or encourage him to not listen to other's critiques of anatomy have the reverse effect on his development (as has already been exhibited), because you do not have any solid reasoning behind your statement:

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There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. The imperfections add to his style.

And do not forget, that is the initial statement I took issue with. Do not make your posts about baller or impune my intent by construing my posts about him.
The key point here, and the one you've failed to defend, is your erroneous statement. As ANY artist, or art historian will tell you, it simply is not true. Because ALL artists with a definitive style, indeed ALL styles, have been created by accomplished artists more than capable of drawing 'without' style.

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I didn't see any commending on your part. Just a lot of pointing.

Again, I did not set out to help him directly, because his drawings need so much work on such a fundamental level that people already beat me to it, and he had already shown an arrogance towards their critiques rather than an acknowledgement.

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oh yeah ^_^. To let you know the distorted anatomy of the body is on purpose. I am trying Final fantasy design ^_^. I really like it and usually the anatomy is alot more well perportioned in my style i really like this style ^_^

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Original post by Professor420 At NO point did I intend to aid baller in his development, my issue, indeed the entire reason I posted, was to address your statement that there is no such thing as incorrect art.

Apparently, you agree with me:

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Original post by Professor420 While you are correct that there is no such thing as 'correct' art, there is most definately 'good' art and 'poor' art.

You cannot have incorrect without correct. Either correct is equal to good, or incorrect is not equal to poor. It will be challenging to continue this conversation until you make up your mind.

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Additionally, statements where you call his inaccuracies 'style' or encourage him to not listen to other's critiques of anatomy have the reverse effect on his development

I don't agree that all of those inaccuracies are inaccuracies. Those that I do not, I considered style. I did not encourage him to ignore critique. I encouraged him to ignore critique that will conform his art to other styles.

I remember back in the day when some of my friends thought anime was totally freaky looking. Today, some admirers see anime as an improvement to the beauty of anatomy, while others still see deformities. You're currently seeing deformities in Bouncer's image, while I do not. I can see how the direction he is taking might lead to an interesting style of art. I would hate for that to be pounded dead in it's tracks because of a conformist artist pushing him back onto the one-way street.

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The key point here, and the one you've failed to defend, is your erroneous statement. As ANY artist, or art historian will tell you, it simply is not true. Because ALL artists with a definitive style, indeed ALL styles, have been created by accomplished artists more than capable of drawing 'without' style.

I have no idea what Bouncer is capable of. But I'll try my best to make this very clear. Here are the exact meanings behind the statements that you seem to be so distraught over. No other hidden meanings exist.

There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art.
There are a lot of different meanings for the word art, and even the meaning itself can take on many different flavors. But I think the true most inner meaning is creation. To conform is to partially copy. I see the lack of conforming, in a positive way, as an increase in creativity. And I see many people claiming (and I totally agree) that the lack of conforming to real-world anatomy causes the work to be 'incorrect'.

A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style.
Just adding focus to the fact that in order for anatomy to be 'incorrect', the artist would have initially intended on his work being conformed by the real world. IE, copying nature's design. It is quite possible that this was far from important to the artist. While you may not agree, that does not make the work universally poor. This is similar to anime, where artists had a different idea about the meaning of 'cute' than nature did.

The imperfections add to his style.
This I added as comparison to Amano's work. It is the actual imperfections of his 'seemingly unfinished' style that I love so much. His art appears to me as a 'quick sketch before real design', and that is exactly what makes it so attractive to me. His work is not trying to be perfect, and that fact brings it closer to achieving perfection. I'm sure someone with no appreciation of art at all (no one here that I'm aware of) would feel that a plain rendered polygon character would be more attractive than Amano's work. This, I assume, has something to do with nostalgia. It's likely tied to the reason I like hand drawn anime better than drawn-over-CGI anime (while the later literally looks better - more correct). The same reason I like old-school fantasy RPG sprites, with their incredibly simple design and cute buggy eyes.

i think you all need a hug

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Original post by PhilMorton i think you all need a hug

You were at -5 and I have rated you right back up to neutral for that. It was very insightful.

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Original post by Kest There's no such thing as correct art. The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it art. There are a lot of different meanings for the word art, and even the meaning itself can take on many different flavors. But I think the true most inner meaning is creation. To conform is to partially copy. I see the lack of conforming, in a positive way, as an increase in creativity. And I see many people claiming (and I totally agree) that the lack of conforming to real-world anatomy causes the work to be 'incorrect'. A perfect rendering of reality would be a photo. A perfect rendering of anime would be a copy of someone else's style. Just adding focus to the fact that in order for anatomy to be 'incorrect', the artist would have initially intended on his work being conformed by the real world. IE, copying nature's design. It is quite possible that this was far from important to the artist. While you may not agree, that does not make the work universally poor. This is similar to anime, where artists had a different idea about the meaning of 'cute' than nature did. The imperfections add to his style. This I added as comparison to Amano's work. It is the actual imperfections of his 'seemingly unfinished' style that I love so much. His art appears to me as a 'quick sketch before real design', and that is exactly what makes it so attractive to me. His work is not trying to be perfect, and that fact brings it closer to achieving perfection. I'm sure someone with no appreciation of art at all (no one here that I'm aware of) would feel that a plain rendered polygon character would be more attractive than Amano's work. This, I assume, has something to do with nostalgia. It's likely tied to the reason I like hand drawn anime better than drawn-over-CGI anime (while the later literally looks better - more correct). The same reason I like old-school fantasy RPG sprites, with their incredibly simple design and cute buggy eyes.

So then, Bouncer is every bit as talented as this guy (http://www.messs.cc/albums/WORKIP/Rhythm_CU_MESSS.jpg), and the fact that his work lacks this skill is actually an illusion. The explaination is simply that his picture is exactly how he envisioned it; he envisioned all those flaws, all those flat lines and the lack of depth.

That, or he just doesn't have the skill and experience to produce anything decent yet, even if he's trying to learn a specific style.