hi, i know many of you have experience in the industry, so i was hoping to get your advice on this situation, i'm currently doing a bachelor of interactive entertainment, with a game programming major, and i really want to give it up at the end of this year (half way through) i find alot of the subject matter isnt even related to programming and to me its really boring, so i was planning to buy a bunch of books related to 3d engine design and game programming, and stay home reading those, while practicing making engines, then making games for those engines i feel like i have enough experience (ive made a few simple 3d engines, and games before) to continue learning by myself, and will be better off experience/knowlege wise and will have more to show for it, but my parents really want me to finish the degree from what i've seen, most programmer job requirements either have nothing related to education, or a bachelor of CS, which is nothing like what im currently doing anyway one of my friends also said that if it was any other industry, he would encourage me to finish it, but in the games industry employers couldnt care less about a degree is this true? or would i be better off with the degree despite it not being CS? and how do i go about explaining to my parents that their experience in life doesnt apply to the games industry? thanks, i really appreciate your responses :) (and sorry if this is the wrong place for this thread)

Quote: is this true?

Nope.

Quote: would i be better off with the degree despite it not being CS?

Yes.

Quote: and how do i go about explaining to my parents that their experience in life doesnt apply to the games industry?

Don't. The world is a bigger place then just the games industry.

Your parents are right, get the degree. It will help when applying for jobs, and a degree in "Interactive Entertainment" sounds fairly relevant to game programming! Just because it is not CS does not mean its useless.

Then of course just having a degree can make a difference for almost any job. Even *IF* a degree was useless for game programming (its not), you should get one anyway (especially since your half way through). After all, if you want to ever work in a different industry it would be helpful. Why would someone purposefully want to lock themselves into a single career with no possibility of change?

If you can code already, then thats great. Keep up on the degree, write code in your free time, put together an impressive demo, and I'm sure your resume will start to look very strong after that. Without the degree, it will definitely be more difficult finding work.

I've never been in the position to assess prospective job applicants, but if you were to give up your degree I'd wager one of the questions you'd be asked in an interview is why you quit, and you'd better have a better reason than that you found it boring. No job is all fun and games, and one of the benefits of having a degree (any degree) is that it shows that you have the tenacity to put in the X number of years to get educated. If you quit your degree purely because you felt bored that would be a serious black mark against you.

Note that if you were to change degrees or left for a great job I wouldn't think it such a stigma, but I wouldn't quit your degree purely because you think you can learn better by yourself.

Plus re: the game industry, I'm fairly sure times have changed and degrees are much more of a requirement than before. Given you'd be competing against prospective job applicants with degrees you'd be at a disadvantage. And of course you might want another job outside the industry at some point.

thanks for the replies,
i'm starting to sway towards staying

its a really hard decision for me to make, cos i know mid next year i'll be regretting it either way

Don't give up the degree. You've put in the work so far. Suck it up and sit through the boring stuff, since the ability to slog through things you don't enjoy is needed in all parts of life. I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts, but I found Art History classes to be dull and boring.. but I stayed the course, because it does help to know theory and history of the subject you study.

I'm going to do one better and give you my husband's experiences. When he was young, he messed around in college, not getting good grades, skipping "boring' classes. He stopped short of getting his degree by 9 credits because those were the 3 required English electives classes (boring to him). It's now 12 years later, and he's regretted the decision. It means employers can immediately knock about $10,000 a year off any salary because he lacks a degree. The only reason he even gets a job is because he can design hardware, as well as software.

The degree shows that you can finish something you started. It shows that you can stay the course and that you have the maturity to deal with something that you don't find optimal. Without a degree, you need to have some spectacular talent or achievement plus a lot of drive.

I ask you this: What if no game company will hire you? What then? At least this way, you have some kind of degree.

As to explaining to your parents why you quit college, write them a letter that tells them you know what you're doing, that their life experience is old-fashioned and out of date and has no pertinence to your life, and that you're actually doing the right thing because the degree is just a piece of paper and has no real value.

Your parents can then save that to show you in ten years when you tell them you regret the decision, and you ask them why they didn't force you to complete the degree. ;)

Hi, I think most of all is already said, however I reply here just to add an other : "Don't quit! Keep going!"

It's quite some time that I finished University, and I have been doing projects for many companies, small ones and big ones. And my experience tells me:
Having a degree definitly matters.

And if you find your studies boring atm, just think of the party after the exam. You wanna be part of it, do you!? ;-)

Cheers
Jochen

Quote:
i find alot of the subject matter isnt even related to programming and to me its really boring,

Pay attention to those classes the most. "Programming" in software development is almost incidental -- it's how we build what we build and how we express ourselves, yes. But the carpentry isn't just about how to use hammers and saws, you know.

The stuff contained in most software-development-related degree programs very often doesn't have to do with programming or programming languages in the specific; languages are just tools and the majority of the languages you end up using in your professional career will be ones you've taught yourself. The math, and algorithm theory, and software design and development methodologies, and all that other good "not related to programming" stuff that you have such disdain for is in there for a good reason -- don't be sucked in by hubris, the people who built your curriculum are better at the subject than you so there's usually a good reason a particular course exists. You'll likely end up finding all that stuff very useful to you in your career; I know I have.

Stick with the degree. If you drop out, you'll just be hurting yourself.

Quote: Original post by m4tthead
i find alot of the subject matter isnt even related to programming and to me its really boring....

Your friend is wrong. Many employers in the games industry require a degree and the reason is that if you can stick out the boring parts of a degree and get to the end there is a better chance that you will stick out the boring parts of a game project and get it finished (make no mistake large chunks of the game dev process are boring).

One other point that may sway you. All the reasearch shows that graduates go on to earn more.

Quote: Original post by m4tthead
i find alot of the subject matter isnt even related to programming and to me its really boring...

Programming is irrelevant. If you can't think, plan and design, being able to "program" is useless - you're just a code monkey.

Quote: ...i was planning to buy a bunch of books related to 3d engine design and game programming, and stay home reading those, while practicing making engines, then making games for those engines.

Your engines will suck, and you won't know why. Your algorithms will be inefficient, and you won't know why. Any graduate will be able to tell you where your bottlenecks are through casual inspection, and you won't know why.

Code exists to express. But what are you going to express if all you know is code?

Stay in school.

It's not a black-and-white matter; probably you have more choices besides staying in your program or quitting school. Can you not transfer to something else?

I started university intending to study computing science. I was top of the class, well set to succeed in it, but it was easy and I was getting bored. One day, about halfway through my first year, I was sitting in the computer lab looking around at my fellow students and the sheer robotic nature of what they were doing hit me. Pretty much on the spot I decided I didn't want to spend my life doing this. I changed majors to Physics, which was much more challenging and still saw me doing lots of computer programming that I liked. From there my career wandered into a lot of different areas and eventually back to full-time programming, but I've always been doing what I wanted and never regretted it.

On the other hand, everything I do has often had its boring moments and if I'd quit when things got tough I never would have reached a lot of more interesting things. You have to think hard and decide what your problem really is. Is the program really just a boring waste of time? Is it worthwhile but seeming a waste of time because you're tired/overworked/bored? Is there something else you would rather be doing?

Don't let the practical concerns ("stay in your program so you can get a good job") rule your life but don't ignore them either. If you're already halfway through school there are lots of good reasons to stay, but see if you can make yourself more comfortable while you're there.