Using existing Sci-fi terminology

The technology could be the same. All it needs is a creative name. (heh... I swear, I didn't mean for that to rhyme) For example, anyone who sees "Warp Drive" is going to think that it's a generic name. In the Halo books, they call their "warp drive" a "Shaw-fujikawa Translight Engine". I had never heard such a name for that technology before, which is what made the Halo books interesting (aside from the fact that it was about Halo). As for going into detail about how the technology works, I say the more info, the better. I love detailed storylines like that.

Bottom line is, you can use whatever technology you like. But, make it interesting by giving it a new name or some unheard of capability.

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Original post by evolutional I've been design, writing, drawing and creating my game universe for some time now and drawing from my enjoyment of Sci-fi books, movies and TV shows. As a result I've inevitably based some of my hypothetical technology, terminology and even ideologies on some of the concepts I've read about or seen. For example, the method of long-haul space travel in a story will almost always boil down to a) a technology resembling Star-Trek's "Warp" speed, b) Jump-gates as in Babylon 5 (artificial wormholes), c) Deep-sleep long-haul at sublight speeds (Alien(s)) or other. Likewise, weapons technologies will likely be Plasma (Star Trek), Laser (Star Wars), Phaser (Star Trek), etc.

Well, babylon 5 jump-gates aren't really jump gates at all. They simply gate you into hyperspace. Hyperspace maps to real-space in an exploded way, thus allowing for a short traversal to cover large distances. Travel through hyperspace is a controlled movement, no fixed destinations. Jump gates assume a source and destination, and provide only unidirectional travel.

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I have a few concerns about using technologies and even terminology that could be traced back to an established Sci-fi story. Obviously, ripping of the entire story of Star Trek and all the technology it uses is a big no-no, but what about subtle references to things such as a new "Warp drive"? What if, like the Warp Drive example, the hypothetical technology itself has a scientific basis that makes it potentially feasible at some point? My references then move away from just naming and actually start to see a 'real' implementation in terms of how the mechanics work... is this pushing it too far?

Well, depends. If the implementation is a duplicate of the star-trek warp drive, then you're going to inherit a lot of terminology from the star-trek series that wouldn't really make sense in another universe (Zefram Cochrane and all that). On the other hand, describing a generic warp technology that involves bending space-time has been used in many stories/novels/games/movies that are not related to that series. As was previously mentioned, Halo has a different name for FTL drives, and using your own unique name (with appropriate backstory) is a good idea.

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What I'm looking to acheive is to create realisim through an air of a person's familiarity with the technology; "oh, a photon/proton torpedo - I know how that works", etc. How do existing games or sci-fi stories go about this in their own technical references? Is one likely to get sued if a game story features a space transportation method which is called "Warp drive", especially if it behaves like the technology we all know and love?

Amusingly, Gunbuster used an FTL warp drive that actually caused time-dialation effects much like a real one would. It aired in the same year as the first star-trek episode too.

I know this is slightly off-topic but I like some of the non-swearing swearing they come up with in sci-fi [wink]

Frack, Shazbot, just about anything in Klingon... [smile]

In general, science fictional terms are not copyrighted or copyrightable. The exception is terms which are not built out of regular English words. So you can't have klingons or aes sedai or trilithium, but you could have sun runners or moon sisters or warp drives.

Is this a future setting?

It may be possible to justify it as use of science fiction vernacular of the past making its way into conventional speech.

To get into copyright or trademark trouble you'll need to represent your game or story as set in the same world as someone else's work, or at least to closely reproduce very characteristic features, names, etc. Basically, you need to copy, and I don't think it is your intention.

But do you really want to "maintain the familiarity of the audience"? Familiar names imply an expectation of familiar concepts: if you have starships with "warp drive" people not used to to Star Trek miss the reference while most of the audience expect easy to use travel to arbitrary distances and destinations (in deep space only), and
a) fail to pay attention and think you aren't original, especially if you just drop a name arbitrarily.
b) find your warp drive wrong wrt "true" warp drive, especially if you introduce details and original features.
c) might be seriously disappointed as you suddenly prove their assumptions inaccurate, e.g. if changing speed is impossible or if warp ships are able to land and take off on planets.
On the other hand, if you take the exact same conception of FTL travel you had in mind and call it "Kristeva-Jakobson engine" the only assumptions will be that it can get a ship from A to B and that it is Terran technology; any further details will be considered with reference to the aggregate of SF, without semantic pollution from inappropriately referenced other fictions.
Your a, b and c options are a personal survey of common or popular space travel options in SF; there are many others (e.g. semi-controlled teleportation, as in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) and many more can be designed (see either of the last two editions of GURPS Space for a nice treatment), and everyone is familiar with different sources, so familiarity is not to be relied upon.

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Original post by Washu Well, depends. If the implementation is a duplicate of the star-trek warp drive, then you're going to inherit a lot of terminology from the star-trek series that wouldn't really make sense in another universe (Zefram Cochrane and all that).

I think this is a really important point; whilst I may want to use terminology from the universe of one story the terminology wouldn't necessarily make sense without the other rich history that surrounds it.

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On the other hand, describing a generic warp technology that involves bending space-time has been used in many stories/novels/games/movies that are not related to that series. As was previously mentioned, Halo has a different name for FTL drives, and using your own unique name (with appropriate backstory) is a good idea.

Going back to the previous point; perhaps the familiarity of the technologies discussed in Sci-fi comes not from the fact that people 'know' about them already, but because they have a rich backstory that makes them believable and 'real' even if they have no real technical feasibility.

This is definitely one for pondering

Why not just use existing science terminology? Not science fiction, but science?

Made up terminology always comes across as just that, made up, and it detracts from the final product.

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Original post by DNARNA Why not just use existing science terminology? Not science fiction, but science? Made up terminology always comes across as just that, made up, and it detracts from the final product.

*nods*, this has also crossed my mind. At least taking the basic premise and adding artistic license to fit it into my game's timelines and stories. One example is the theoretical Alcubierre drive for FTL travel

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Original post by evolutional Quote: Original post by DNARNA Why not just use existing science terminology? Not science fiction, but science? Made up terminology always comes across as just that, made up, and it detracts from the final product. *nods*, this has also crossed my mind. At least taking the basic premise and adding artistic license to fit it into my game's timelines and stories. One example is the theoretical Alcubierre drive for FTL travel

I use that all the time for stuff, but the thing is, think about how the drive itself works. It essentially DOES warp the space around it, so calling it a "warp drive/engine/apparatus/hampster in a wheel" would be fitting. When you get into things like "replicators" and "tractor beams" though, you would run into some problems.

Take the marketing approach and bin the tired SF cliché of naming and describing each and every technology in wearisome detail.

People don't talk about their "MP3 Player". They talk about their "iPod", "Zen", (or, in very rare cases, their "Zune"). The underlying technology is utterly irrelevant. "Look at my cool new Shiznit 77TDI cellphone!" they boast, while showing off its neat tea-making feature.

The people of the future will still be much like the people of today. Used spaceship salesmen will still be oily, greasy spivs who would sell their own grandmothers for a quick buck if their parents hadn't already done so...

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"What about this one, guv?" The salesman asked, pointing out at a gleaming steel needle of a ship. "Wow! Is that the new Mbutu K7?" "None other! Get you from Earth to Pluto in less than twenty minutes. AND it comes with free alloy tailfins!" My wife, Mavis, coughed politely. "Oh," I added, suddenly remembering the row we'd had last night. "What's the fuel consumption on this?" "Six micrograms per AU on this model. There's the K7r which uses the new Rewriter Drive if you want more speed, but that's 8.2 µg/AU." "Gosh! That's still less than the Pluton Mk. 2 we looked at yesterday," Mavis exclaimed. "Ah well," said the salesman, rubbing his hands together, "that's Ford for you. Ever since they got bought out by FIAT, they've never been quite the same." "What's the damage then?" "How about seventy thousand Euros and I'll even throw in the ultra-def Sony sound system and sill protectors?" "We'll take it! Do you take Visa?" "That'll do nicely! Would you like the extended warranty, corrosion protection and planetside spaceship recovery package?"

Note that I don't explain the Rewriter Drive in any great detail. The salesman has no effing clue how the technology works anyway, and the couple aren't that interested in whether it's hamster-powered or nuclear. (In the novel-in-progress from which the above excerpt came, the Rewriter Drive is, in fact, described in the manual as "A fantastic new drive technology which simply rewrites the laws of physics around the spaceship, such that Einsteinian laws don't apply". It's bollocks, yes, but this isn't a serious, "hard SF" novel.)

Just as people don't actually spend too much time discussing whether their car runs on petrol or diesel, but might be more piqued by, say, LPG or hydrogen power -- at least until these alternative fuels become commonplace -- so the people of the future would be far less interested in the basics and more wowed by whether their Magyarspace Io will talk to their iPod implant.

Function, not form, is what most people care about. What does it _do_, not _how does it work_. Only engineers care about the latter.

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Original post by DNARNA Why not just use existing science terminology? Not science fiction, but science? Made up terminology always comes across as just that, made up, and it detracts from the final product.

Have to say I totally disagree with that. I think it's impossible to effectively imagine a future different from the modern world, much less an alien culture, if you are afraid of inventing new technologies and terms. And it's a proven fact that many technologies and terms invented in science fiction have since entered the mainstream and become part of our culture's evolution. I dunno about you, but hoping to contribute to the evolution of culture is one of the reasons why I write.

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Original post by sunandshadow Quote: Original post by DNARNA Why not just use existing science terminology? Not science fiction, but science? Made up terminology always comes across as just that, made up, and it detracts from the final product. Have to say I totally disagree with that. I think it's impossible to effectively imagine a future different from the modern world, much less an alien culture, if you are afraid of inventing new technologies and terms. And it's a proven fact that many technologies and terms invented in science fiction have since entered the mainstream and become part of our culture's evolution. I dunno about you, but hoping to contribute to the evolution of culture is one of the reasons why I write.

Evolution doesn't nessecarily lead to a better system you know.

And look at the terms that are popular and well known. Warp drive, replicator, shields, crap like that. All have names based in either their functional process or their intended purpose. And if you think I'm against new technology and terms, you are dead wrong. I probably spend more time than anyone you know designing technologies for hypothetical futures and pasts, all based around science, and then named for their function or purpose.

Hell, I'll even throw out an example. Now, this comic takes place in 1863, so the process is slightly reversed, but you'll get the idea. There are a few technologies I had to design. The first were the nuclear boilers, which are basically oversimplified modern reactors. Now these have no external heat source, like most boilers, so the actual heat is generated from INSIDE the boiler itself, hence, a "Fire Belly". Simple no?

Now, another example, this one named for its intended purpose. The idea was to create a way of generating large amounts of high pressure steam in a short amount of time. For this, I basically took the reactive qualities of high concentration H2O2 and fudged the numbers. Its intended purpose: quick generation of work applied steam, the name "The quicksteam boiler".

Names ALWAYS have to be based around something. Throwing some random vowels and consonents around and maybe a superflous apostrophe does not make a name. A name is recognizable and easily tied to what it does.

Isnt it all based on 'Chronaton' particles anyway ????





"Hell, I'll even throw out an example. Now, this comic takes place in 1863, so the process is slightly reversed, but you'll get the idea. There are a few technologies I had to design. The first were the nuclear boilers, which are basically oversimplified modern reactors. Now these have no external heat source, like most boilers, so the actual heat is generated from INSIDE the boiler itself, hence, a "Fire Belly". Simple no?"


Maybe only if you were in China where they still called locomotives Iron Dragons.....

In England and the US steam locomotives had already been around for more than 30 years and steam engines had been used since about 1700. Many ships were already being powered by them. The terminology wasnt so 'mystical' by that point. Your reactor might be called an Perpetual Steam Generator in 1863.


[Edited by - wodinoneeye on January 20, 2007 3:28:38 AM]

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Original post by wodinoneeye Isnt it all based on 'Chronaton' particles anyway ???? "Hell, I'll even throw out an example. Now, this comic takes place in 1863, so the process is slightly reversed, but you'll get the idea. There are a few technologies I had to design. The first were the nuclear boilers, which are basically oversimplified modern reactors. Now these have no external heat source, like most boilers, so the actual heat is generated from INSIDE the boiler itself, hence, a "Fire Belly". Simple no?" Maybe only if you were in China where they still called locomotives Iron Dragons..... In England and the US steam locomotives had already been around for more than 30 years and steam engines had been used since about 1700. Many ships were already being powered by them. The terminology wasnt so 'mystical' by that point. Your reactor might be called an Perpetual Steam Generator in 1863.

There is nothing mystical about this, simply marketability. Handing out a name that is exotic, or descriptive of its functionality makes it easier to sell to somebody.

--edit--

Not only that, but while the steam engine had been around for a good long while, the nuclear reactor had not been. This is a quantum leap in technological progress, to the point of it having near mystical qualities.

I personally think that you need to make up your own terminology, or use existing real-life terms, such as "vacuum", or whatever.
I'm really sick of hearing the word "tachyon" in science fiction.
IMO, you should really try to create something original or not-heard-often.
Have you heard of a "superluminal particle accelerator" instead of a "Hyper-drive"?
Seriously, if nothing else, don't copy Star Trek or whatever.
Make something original, and people won't think of it as "just another sci-fi game". :)

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Original post by destron I personally think that you need to make up your own terminology, or use existing real-life terms, such as "vacuum", or whatever. I'm really sick of hearing the word "tachyon" in science fiction. IMO, you should really try to create something original or not-heard-often. Have you heard of a "superluminal particle accelerator" instead of a "Hyper-drive"? Seriously, if nothing else, don't copy Star Trek or whatever. Make something original, and people won't think of it as "just another sci-fi game". :)

Lisa: But you have recruiting ads on TV. Why do you need
subliminal messages?
Smash: It’s a three-pronged attack. Subliminal, liminal, and
superliminal.
Lisa: Superliminal?
Smash: I’ll show you. [opens the window, and shouts at Lenny and
Carl, who are standing on the corner] Hey, you! Join the
Navy!
Carl: Uh, yeah, all right.
Lenny: I’m in.

For the record, "Wormholes" are the analog name for Einstein-Rosen Bridges.

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Original post by evolutional What I'm looking to acheive is to create realisim through an air of a person's familiarity with the technology; "oh, a photon/proton torpedo - I know how that works", etc. How do existing games or sci-fi stories go about this in their own technical references?

The makers of Star Trek don't even know how a photon torpedo works. [wink]

Just call it a torpedo, if it's reasonably torpedo-like. Bare in mind, though, that for people not savvy with sci-fi terminology, but savvy with military terminology, a torpedo isn't like Star Trek's torpedos.

A real-world torpedo travels underwater, making it difficult to see and difficult to intercept. Obviously that doesn't translate directly to space warfare, but a sci-fi analog might be a "cloaked" missile. Normal projectile weapons would just be called missiles or rockets.

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Is one likely to get sued if a game story features a space transportation method which is called "Warp drive", especially if it behaves like the technology we all know and love?

No. There'd be nothing to sue over.

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Original post by darkcypher543 Bottom line is, you can use whatever technology you like. But, make it interesting by giving it a new name or some unheard of capability.

I don't think giving something old a new name magically makes it interesting. In fact, I find it most annoying when a book uses a well-known archetype but gratuitously uses a new, or old but uncommon, name.

A non-sci-fi example springs to mind: some writers call creatures which are archetypal vampires vampyrs, wampyrs, or haemophages, amongst other names. Calling them wampyrs when you're (1) not German and (2) not making them notably distinct from archetypal vampires is pretentious and makes me think you called them wampyrs because it was easier than actually making them worthy of a distinctive moniker.

Archetypes are useful because they allow the writer to say "this aspect of the Universe isn't important to the story".

Archetypes are used extensively in contemporary fiction, as well; if a writer says that a character sits on a "chair", it's understood that it doesn't matter what kind of chair; but if the writer says that a character sits on a "white-cushioned mahogany chair in the Louis XVI style", the chair is probably significant, unless the writer is being ironic.

Similarly, if a ship is described as having a "warp drive", that's a clue that it doesn't matter what kind of drive other than the ship passes through the intervening space (i.e. it's not a "jump drive") and relativistic effects don't apply. There's usually no need to refer to it as a "Mehendale-Smith-Kitamura Metafolding Engine", unless the plot needs to distinguish between different brands of engine, or an engineer named Kitamura Kasumi is introduced and you want the reader to make the obvious inference rather than having to be told explicitly.

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Original post by sunandshadow In general, science fictional terms are not copyrighted or copyrightable. The exception is terms which are not built out of regular English words.

Do you have a citation for this exception?

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Original post by stimarco People don't talk about their "MP3 Player". They talk about their "iPod", "Zen", (or, in very rare cases, their "Zune"). The underlying technology is utterly irrelevant.

You're bypassing the real reason they're called "iPods" in particular. If it was simply that we didn't care about the underlying technology, we'd still call them "Walkmen. They're called "iPods" because that's the name under which the concept of the "Digital Audio Player" was introduced to many people, and although now there are widely used DAPs which aren't really iPods, network effects prevent the adoption of a vendor-neutral term.

Whether or not a class of thing is commonly known by the name of a famous brand of that thing depends upon how it was introduced to the public. DAPs are iPods (although I hear many people call them "MP3 players"), but ABS brakes aren't called "Maxarets" or "Bosch brakes".

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Note that I don't explain the Rewriter Drive in any great detail. The salesman has no effing clue how the technology works anyway, and the couple aren't that interested in whether it's hamster-powered or nuclear.

The problem here is that "Mbutu" and "Pluton" are nonsense words with no meaning to the reader. "iPod" works as a shorthand for "Portable Digital Audio Player" because people know what an iPod is. The characters in your story automatically know what a Mbutu is, but the reader doesn't.

If your goal is to make the reader ignore the ship's engine, calling it by an unfamiliar name is the wrong way to go about it, because the unfamiliar name will call attention to it. Call it a "warp drive" and a savvy reader will think "oh, it's just a generic warp drive; I'll worry no more about it".