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PS3 Programming Info

Started by Big_Bear_Scot Feb 27, 2007 at 6:44 PM 5 replies 5.2k views

Original Post

Feb 27, 2007 at 6:44 PM

Well I have carried out a search and I couldn't seem to find a thread on programming for the PS3 so I thought I would just start one. Okay first of all I am going to post some links. IBM - Intro to Linux on PS3 IBM - SPE on PS3 IBM - Communication between SPE PPU The first article shows you how to get Yellow Dog Linux up and running on your PS3. It also gives you some basic code for the SPE and PPE. The other articles expand on the introduction given in the first article. We have seen the basics of getting applications working with the Cell on the PS3 so what about graphics. The bad news is that Sony have not released an API to access the RSX(graphics processor) so there is no hardware accelerated graphics. Notice I say hardware accelerated graphics, we can actually gain access to the frame buffer(/dev/fb0). This means that we can open this up like any other device in Linux and start writing to it, one member of the PS2 Linux community is going to write a rasterizer that runs some of the calculations on one of the SPEs. PS3 frame buffer tutorials I for one think this console generation is very exciting for us Hobbyist, Students, Indie Developers as the console manufacturers have opened up their hardware for development for us mere mortals(PS3 running Linux or Xbox360 with XNA). The only problem I have not had a chance to try some of this coding out since the PS3 is not released until the 23rd of March(UK and EU), so in the mean time I have been doing some coding on the Fedora Core 5 with the IBM Cell Simulator. This allows me to play about with code for the Cell without having the hardware. I hope some of you guys have found this interesting. Thanks, Brian

outRider

110

outRider

Feb 28, 2007 at 4:37 PM

Quote:
Original post by Big_Bear_Scot
We have seen the basics of getting applications working with the Cell on the PS3 so what about graphics. The bad news is that Sony have not released an API to access the RSX(graphics processor) so there is no hardware accelerated graphics.
Notice I say hardware accelerated graphics, we can actually gain access to the frame buffer(/dev/fb0). This means that we can open this up like any other device in Linux and start writing to it, one member of the PS2 Linux community is going to write a rasterizer that runs some of the calculations on one of the SPEs.

ArchangelMorph

Mar 8, 2007 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Original post by outRider

It's not the actual frame buffer you're accessing, it's a virtual frame buffer in main memory. Even the OS doesn't have access to the RSX, the kernel asks the hypervisor to copy that virtual frame buffer to the real frame buffer as necessary. Also, it's probably up to NVidia to release a driver or specifications for the RSX, I doubt Sony has much control.[/quote]

Actually it's entirely up to Sony and not NVidia whether they want to release drivers or specs for the chip..

Sony owns and maintains it and NVidia's relations with RSX ended after they designed it..

Promit

Mod

1,082

Promit

Mar 8, 2007 at 1:05 PM

Specs really have nothing to do with it. The RSX is basically a GeForce 7, and it wouldn't be the first time the Linux guys blackboxed a graphics chip.

The inability to access RSX on PS3 isn't some kind of accident. It's a deliberate restriction enforced by the hypervisor. Specs won't help because the system is designed not to allow Linux to do any sort of real direct communication with the graphics processor. And unless someone can find an exploit that cracks the hypervisor open (possible but not likely), it's going to stay that way.

SimonForsman

177

SimonForsman

Mar 8, 2007 at 1:17 PM

Quote:
Original post by Promit
Specs really have nothing to do with it. The RSX is basically a GeForce 7, and it wouldn't be the first time the Linux guys blackboxed a graphics chip.

The inability to access RSX on PS3 isn't some kind of accident. It's a deliberate restriction enforced by the hypervisor. Specs won't help because the system is designed not to allow Linux to do any sort of real direct communication with the graphics processor. And unless someone can find an exploit that cracks the hypervisor open (possible but not likely), it's going to stay that way.

and ofcourse the main reason for this is to avoid homebrew competition, Sony needs to make sure noone can release (comercial quality)games for the PS3 without paying the royalties required. Otherwise it could become very hard for Sony to regain the money they loose by selling the console at a loss.

The use of a modchip is probably the only way to gain unrestricted access to the hardware. ofcourse the legal use of a modchip gets really limited when you get decent homebrew access without one.

griffin2000

Mar 8, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Though Sony they are trying to compete with the 360's Live Arcade feature with their "E-Distribution Initiative" :

Quote:

As part of Sony's plans for the launch of its next-gen PlayStation 3 console later this year, the company has started planning the PS3 E-Distribution Initiative, to help both first and third-party developers digitally distribute its games via download, directly to the PS3.

The service, which will clearly compete with Microsoft's successfully launched Xbox Live Arcade service for the Xbox 360, is currently in the pre-production stages, and Gamasutra got a chance to talk to the project's John Hight, Director of External Production at SCEA Santa Monica, about his role heading up the project.

Firstly, Hight discussed some of the advantages of PlayStation 3 E-Distribution from Sony's point of view, noting: "Certainly being able to sell globally on-line makes it easier to reach international and remote markets. On the business side, it also lowers our cost of sales and eliminates inventory risk. It should help curtail used
game sales and piracy."

He continued, echoing many of the thoughts about the advantages of digital distribution: "This new form of distribution will lower the barriers of entry for new developers. We can try out new ideas in a low risk, quick feedback environment."
.
.
Finally, when asked what developers who would like to get their games E-Distributed do to come to the attention of Sony, Hight explained: "Create a high concept or, better yet, build a working prototype of
their game. Then register on our developer website www.playstation.com/beyond."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9931

To truely compete with Live Arcade they would have to allow some kind of XNA-style "homebrew" game development on the PS3 . Whether they will or not is a up to them.

Ravyne

294

Ravyne

Mar 8, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Quote:
Original post by ArchangelMorph
Quote:
Original post by outRider
It's not the actual frame buffer you're accessing, it's a virtual frame buffer in main memory. Even the OS doesn't have access to the RSX, the kernel asks the hypervisor to copy that virtual frame buffer to the real frame buffer as necessary. Also, it's probably up to NVidia to release a driver or specifications for the RSX, I doubt Sony has much control.

Actually it's entirely up to Sony and not NVidia whether they want to release drivers or specs for the chip..

Sony owns and maintains it and NVidia's relations with RSX ended after they designed it..

I haven't heard this to be true. Sony "co-developed" RSX with nVidia which probably means "sent some specifications to" rather than "helped". They license the design, and I believe they manufacture it themselves, rather than buying chips from nVidea the way MS did with the first XBox, but they certainly don't own much, if any, of the IP that went into the chip and there's no way they could open up the chips specs without the green light from nVidia.

Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see the full power of the RSX made available to the linux crowd. If they unlocked the chip, what's to stop EA from making PS3 games on a linux boot-disc and circumventing Sony's licensing scheme? Nothing, thats what. Not only that, but opening up the spec would reveal the internals of nVidias 7x00 architecture, somthing nVidia is not wanting to do, which could expose nVidia to IP infringement lawsuits if they're using any tech they shouldn't be, even if they're unaware that their use is infringing.

I think we will eventually see limited 3D hardware support by going through the hypervisor layer, though. This will allow Sony to provide access to the 3D chipset without exposing how it works internally, They'll also cripple it in some way, either by artificially limiting the speed or by only exposing a limeted set of features... Perhaps by limiting the Shader model support to 1.x, or not including them at all.

Honestly, I'd be happy with a hardware accelerated OpenGL|ES driver.

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