Interesting sci-fi tidbit

I'm not expert so this is only my humble opinion but I like it. I always enjoy reading pseudo-science/technology that I "understand" and your quick summary of the planet's situation is just that! Not like that star trek mumbo-jumbo.

How does the player figure out that the planet will collapse on it's own and if it's general knowledge why would people be attracted this planet if they're about to die (even though there is now no government)... Is there some kind of massive looting going on or is it an "Escape from New York" kind of setting? Who's your main character? I guess more details could be fun :)

The science sounds a bit sketchy but I can see this as being a fun game, say, if you wander around and find various possiblities for escape, a broken space elevator, a space shuttle you can fix, a space plane you have to steal or even an underground teleport station. Meanwhile you have to fend off all the bad guys trying to steal your escape route or attack you for some reason. Maybe once you get into space there is a starship you then have to sneak onto or something. Meanwhile, as time goes by, your options diminish as, say the space elevator gets destroyed by the ever increasing catyclysm.

Okay, it's been a while since I've taken physics, so bear with me. :)

You say the atmosphere is escaping, and hence has to be stabilized. But a meteor crashing on the planet would likely only add to its mass, so the atmosphere shouldn't be affected. Also, it may have destroyed the outer mantle, but you're suggesting the impact was powerful enough to send most of the crust into space, overcoming the planet's gravity well? An impact of that magnitude may well shred the planet to pieces, or derail its orbit.

Next, a space station that holds the atmosphere together. I'm going to assume that the engineering and physics problems behind this concept are actually feasible, in which case a question presents itself: why would someone spend so much money and effort to construct something like that on a planet that is already doomed?

These things are not central to your idea, though, so it's easy to refine them a bit. The way I see it, the core concept here is "being trapped in a cataclysmic situation and trying to escape". With that in mind, what if we had the following scenario: Let's say the impact really is feasible, or better yet that a comet or meteor passing too close to the planet tore off some part of the planet's mass, destabilizing the crust. The planet no longer has enough mass to sustain its atmosphere, which very slowly starts to leak away. No need for fancy space stations breaking suspension of disbelief or whatnot.

The critical point is being approached now, and the social situation your described is happening. Or maybe the planet was a prison colony to begin with, and now the wardens have run away, abandoning the prisoners, taking with them the last spacecraft and therefore the last hopes for leaving the planet. Well, actually, there is still a spacecraft left, and the three rival prisoner gangs are fighting for control over it. One controls the landing pad, one controls the fuel depot, and maybe a third one controls the starting codes or some other important component (like having the last pilot who can steer the craft). The player could take various paths here, like making all three groups work together, or betraying some or all of them and escaping by himself. Lots of possible branches here, with difficult moral choices. Who gets to ride on the ship? The player? his love interest? His allies? There obviously won't be enough space for everyone.

Interesting...Yep, definitely potential here. It creates an interesting situation to contemplate with a lot of urgency.

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Original post by ShotgunNinja The planet (a decade before the story begins) was hit by a meteorite which sheared off a large section of the small planet's outer mantle.

This is feasible, assuming a very large meteoroid, but how come everyone didn't die? An impact powerful enough to eject a large portion of the upper mantle would certainly melt the crust and everyone in it.

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The resulting chasm eventually grew, until all that was left of the planet's crust was a small region of land reinforced by the network of now-abandoned cities below the planet's surface.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret this. Where exactly did the rest of the crust go, and why wasn't it replaced with cooled rock from the exposed mantle?

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The atmosphere of the planet is being held up by a giant orbiting space station that reinforces the planet's gravity well with a giant network of smaller satellites which compose an electromagnetic web around the planetoid, reinforcing it and holding in the atmosphere.

Held up? Who built the space station and the network of satellites? If they were around before the impact performing some other task, how did they survive being in the way when the mantle was ejected into space? It seems a more pressing matter is what people are breathing, now that almost all the plant-life on the planet has presumably been destroyed.

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The story begins, however, ten years after the meteorite impact, when the government has all but ran away from the doomed planet, leaving only those criminals and low-lifes who either were unable to afford a ticket off the planet or were attracted to its destabilized government and lack of law enforcement.

Criminals and low-lives aren't the only people who would be unable to afford tickets. "The poor" are the most likely people to have stayed behind. Of course, they are also the least likely to have survived the impact. What are they all eating, anyway?

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The player becomes aware that if he is to remain alive, he must find a way off of the planet before it collapses into itself.

Collapses into itself? Why would the planet spontaneously do that?

What if the planet was in a state of cold warm with each city state surrounded by powerful force shields supported by a network of satellites? When the meteorite struck the planet it knocked a large chuck of the planets crust off of the planet and into space. The game take place in city state on that chuck of planet hurtling through space. The city shield was strong enough to preserve the city from complete destruction but it was devastated none the less. Every one of wealth and importance left as soon as they could but the rest where left on a slow cruise to destruction.

I'm with Nathan, the physics of the situation is enough for me to dismiss basic premise of the story.

How about using examples from our own Earth's past; so the meteorite hit the planet causing a huge global shift in temperature (from firey heat at the impact zone to nuclear winter when the atmoshpere was full of dust). The huge change in climate forces the rich to erect huge shield domes around the remaining cities and everyone else underground (I'm assuming you have a high-tech society from your idea about holding the planet together with EM fields from satelites). Your idea seems to revolve around being trapped with condemed criminals and maniacs whilst trying to get off the planet; how about have the guys in the cities build huge space craft to evacuate the planet (perhaps because they can't live in the domes forever), most of these have left but the last one (or two) are filling up ready to go. You'd start as the player outside of the city, living underground with the crazies and trying to escape to the surface to get into the last occupied city and onto a space ship towards freedom.

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Original post by evolutional How about using examples from our own Earth's past; so the meteorite hit the planet causing a huge global shift in temperature (from firey heat at the impact zone to nuclear winter when the atmoshpere was full of dust). The huge change in climate forces the rich to erect huge shield domes around the remaining cities and everyone else underground (I'm assuming you have a high-tech society from your idea about holding the planet together with EM fields from satelites). Your idea seems to revolve around being trapped with condemed criminals and maniacs whilst trying to get off the planet; how about have the guys in the cities build huge space craft to evacuate the planet (perhaps because they can't live in the domes forever), most of these have left but the last one (or two) are filling up ready to go. You'd start as the player outside of the city, living underground with the crazies and trying to escape to the surface to get into the last occupied city and onto a space ship towards freedom.

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Original post by lightbringer Okay, it's been a while since I've taken physics, so bear with me. :) You say the atmosphere is escaping, and hence has to be stabilized. But a meteor crashing on the planet would likely only add to its mass, so the atmosphere shouldn't be affected. Also, it may have destroyed the outer mantle, but you're suggesting the impact was powerful enough to send most of the crust into space, overcoming the planet's gravity well? An impact of that magnitude may well shred the planet to pieces, or derail its orbit. Next, a space station that holds the atmosphere together. I'm going to assume that the engineering and physics problems behind this concept are actually feasible, in which case a question presents itself: why would someone spend so much money and effort to construct something like that on a planet that is already doomed? These things are not central to your idea, though, so it's easy to refine them a bit. The way I see it, the core concept here is "being trapped in a cataclysmic situation and trying to escape". With that in mind, what if we had the following scenario: Let's say the impact really is feasible, or better yet that a comet or meteor passing too close to the planet tore off some part of the planet's mass, destabilizing the crust. The planet no longer has enough mass to sustain its atmosphere, which very slowly starts to leak away. No need for fancy space stations breaking suspension of disbelief or whatnot. The critical point is being approached now, and the social situation your described is happening. Or maybe the planet was a prison colony to begin with, and now the wardens have run away, abandoning the prisoners, taking with them the last spacecraft and therefore the last hopes for leaving the planet. Well, actually, there is still a spacecraft left, and the three rival prisoner gangs are fighting for control over it. One controls the landing pad, one controls the fuel depot, and maybe a third one controls the starting codes or some other important component (like having the last pilot who can steer the craft). The player could take various paths here, like making all three groups work together, or betraying some or all of them and escaping by himself. Lots of possible branches here, with difficult moral choices. Who gets to ride on the ship? The player? his love interest? His allies? There obviously won't be enough space for everyone.

Three words: It's a game.

Interesting argument, though. Very interesting.

Also, the reason behind the station was that right after the impact, before the governing figures realized the planet was doomed, they set up the space station in the hopes that it would restabilize the planet. They only completed and activated it to reassure the general public long enough to let them escape a possible rebellion.

Also, did not great science-fiction themes like that of Halo begin with a simple idea, inelegant and unsupported until well into development? I mean, is a Halo-type 'Dyson Ring' even possible? My point is, the story's details really don't matter much at this point in development, and they won't until the game system is made and working. Cutscenes and story dialog can be added after the game itself works. All I really need to start is a central story piece, and I can build on that as I go. But thank you for giving me a list of questions to answer during the course of development.

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Original post by ShotgunNinja Three words: It's a game.

Please don't take my following comment negatively, but with that kind of attitude, I am not sure what kind of feedback exactly you are looking for.

Just because it's a game, it's okay to completely reinvent physics? You are planning to tell a complex and engaging story - which means you are going for suspension of disbelief. But suspension of disbelief is going to be hard if the premise falls apart at the seams.

There are some concepts that are acceptable because they enhance gameplay - for instance, the non-Newtonian dogfighter movement/combat physics found in most space combat simulators, or the lightning reflexes found in most first-person shooters. But in storytelling, I think one should strive for the most believable background possible.

As for the game concept itself, it's an interesting one. Several successful games have in fact used the "escape from L.A." concept before, including System Shock 2 and, if I recall correctly, the original Unreal. The dramatic tension of the situation is the reason why it can work so well.

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Original post by lightbringer Just because it's a game, it's okay to completely reinvent physics? You are planning to tell a complex and engaging story - which means you are going for suspension of disbelief. But suspension of disbelief is going to be hard if the premise falls apart at the seams.

I completely agree. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars/Star Trek are all popular franchises because the story is believable even if it is completely fantasty.

Well with that sort of attitude, you'd probably be better of not explaining why the world is like that, instead just say, here's your situation, deal with it. Don't give a bac kstory with the premise that its "just a game" so you can throw any bs and the player will swallow it. Only have what you need to get by. Honestly since this seems like a game focused heavily on the action, you honestly don't even need as much of an excuse-erm- back story as you already have. I'd just tell the player what kind of trouble they are in and go from there rather than giving them a questionable back story.

I like the whole crumbling planetoid idea but agree with the others about the physics being a bit off.

Here are some ideas I thought up to preserve the general idea. I'm sure you find better ideas if you think about it more.

How about researchers on the planetoid made a small black hole by accident (or even a passing micro black hole lodged itself into the planetoid's core). The black hole slowly eats the planetoid from within. Satellites are used to prevent reinforced sections of the crust from falling into the black hole. Escape is hard not because of gravity, (the black hole just has the same gravity as the planetoid) but by the radiation given of by the black hole (as matter falling into it) the intense bursts of X-ray and other nasty stuff fries everything but the powerful city shields. The rich already left a long while ago leaving the poor/criminals behind.

Cheers!

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Original post by ShotgunNinja Also, the reason behind the station was that right after the impact, before the governing figures realized the planet was doomed, they set up the space station in the hopes that it would restabilize the planet. They only completed and activated it to reassure the general public long enough to let them escape a possible rebellion.

That doesn't make sense. If the government has the means to build an array of satellites and a "giant" space station, then I refuse to believe they lack the means to move themselves off the planet whenever they wish.

Although I doubt that they could send up an array of satellites and a "giant" space station from a planet which is 90% molten and, as must be the case, surrounded by a rocky debris belt. It seems more likely that the satellites and "giant" space station would have been built "elsewhere" and shipped in, after the debris was removed (a monumental task in itself, no doubt). This leads to the conclusion that if the forces in charge of the restabilization project were off-planet, there would be no pressing reason for them to continue the project after discovering that it was pointless.

If the government did have the ability to build and launch an array of satellites and a "giant" space station right after an asteroid impact destroys 90% of the planet's surface and sends half of its upper mantle into a debris cloud around the planet which will fall as a continuous global meteor shower for many years to come, then I have to wonder why they didn't put that effort towards evacuation. Never mind if they thought the planet could be saved; it's basic disaster response policy: the first thing you do is evacuate.

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Also, did not great science-fiction themes like that of Halo begin with a simple idea, inelegant and unsupported until well into development?

No. Halo's ring is built upon decades of speculation by various authors in science-fiction. You can bet that Bungie had the fundamental concepts down well before development.

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I mean, is a Halo-type 'Dyson Ring' even possible?

Halo isn't a Dyson ring; the two things are quite distinct. Both of them are physically realistic, though. The Halo could be built with materials we are able to synthesize today; although we can't synthesize them in the vast quantities would would be required.

More to the point is that Halo is internally consistent. Even if it required materials with properties not seen in nature, we could say what those properties were. Halo makes logical sense, which is far more important than physical sense when it comes to suspension of disbelief.

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My point is, the story's details really don't matter much at this point in development, and they won't until the game system is made and working.

It matters sufficiently that you asked for our opinions. And you got 'em.

Just another tid-bit:

Halo is based on the "Ring World" series by Larry Niven. He's a good sci-fi writer who actually takes a lot of time to consider the physics of what he's writing about. I'd highly recommend reading his books!

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Original post by CrewNick Just another tid-bit: Halo is based on the "Ring World" series by Larry Niven. He's a good sci-fi writer who actually takes a lot of time to consider the physics of what he's writing about. I'd highly recommend reading his books!

I might note that unlike the Halo, Niven's ring is not physically realistic, since it requires building materials with impossible properties. But it does make logical sense.

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Original post by ShotgunNinja all that was left of the planet's crust was a small region of land reinforced by the network of now-abandoned cities below the planet's surface

For me, this is the point that holds the least water (but I agree with others' criticism about other shaky science and about suspension of disbelief).

- Where the crust is destroyed there can be no underground cities, the game must still be set within the "small region of land". The surrounding devastation is a mere backdrop, or possibly a place that can be rapidly crossed or visited for very good reasons and with exceptional, dearly acquired equipment.

- What does the game gain from putting "cities" (and, I presume, roads and other structures) underground, rather than on the surface? Among the planned locales of this adventure, which ones really need to be underground?

- Why should there be any significant underground construction in the first place? There is no mention of the hostile surface environment that made people build underground cities rather than digging mines and living on the surface, nor of the extraordinary minerary resources or archeological treasures or other useful pursuits that justified the huge expense and long term effort of digging underground cities rather than colonizing a more hospitable planet.

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Original post by ShotgunNinja OK, I am a new game developer, obviously, and I have a science fiction story piece to ponder. My game involves the character being trapped on a planetoid which is nearing the point of destruction due to its own gravitational force. The planet (a decade before the story begins) was hit by a meteorite which sheared off a large section of the small planet's outer mantle. The resulting chasm eventually grew, until all that was left of the planet's crust was a small region of land reinforced by the network of now-abandoned cities below the planet's surface. The atmosphere of the planet is being held up by a giant orbiting space station that reinforces the planet's gravity well with a giant network of smaller satellites which compose an electromagnetic web around the planetoid, reinforcing it and holding in the atmosphere. The story begins, however, ten years after the meteorite impact, when the government has all but ran away from the doomed planet, leaving only those criminals and low-lifes who either were unable to afford a ticket off the planet or were attracted to its destabilized government and lack of law enforcement. The player becomes aware that if he is to remain alive, he must find a way off of the planet before it collapses into itself. Well? What do you think?

The premise is good. I like it. Much room to explore many complex concepts. I dont mind the science since I think the real meat of the story would be of a sociological nature.

However, to appease those who would scuff at the science perhaps you might consider the following:

The society is a very technically advanced one. There was a long forcasted meteor crash and people survived by making some kind of underground/techno diverter safehouses in zones were impact had smallest effects. Planet was never really large: huge chunk knocked off planet so it became too small to contain an atmosphere. It was also never very spherical, in fact its shape was such that its weather system was complex and harsh (trying to comb it smooth would be a joke! See Hairy balls). As such there was already an extensive underground infrastructure since there were more harsh spots than moderate green ones. A centuries long project undertaken to artificially enhance gravity of planet and kickstart atmosphere cause biospheres are boring not like the legends of old of a greener planet.

centuries after completetion the gravito devices began to malfunction due to some mistake and little understood phenomenon. Gravity modifier device began to get too strong then too weak. Pulsating squeezing action. Planet is crumbling. Pattern is a runaway effect towards a stronger and stronger gravity system. Planet is becoming a black hole. (you can fill in the what about destroying device hole. lots of options).

As well, the people were never really interested in conquering space since they were not of an adventerous nature (you see their planet made it hard for Drakes and Magellan ideals to come about) as such no real effort was placed into space faring technologies till the meteor blizzard forecast. so not many ships were built by the time the squeeze cataclysm occurred there were still not many ships in existance.

We must Escape or stop the Squeeze!

[Edited by - Daerax on April 5, 2007 9:00:27 AM]

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Original post by Nathan Baum Quote: Original post by ShotgunNinja Quote: Also, did not great science-fiction themes like that of Halo begin with a simple idea, inelegant and unsupported until well into development? No. Halo's ring is built upon decades of speculation by various authors in science-fiction. You can bet that Bungie had the fundamental concepts down well before development. Quote: I mean, is a Halo-type 'Dyson Ring' even possible? Halo isn't a Dyson ring; the two things are quite distinct. Both of them are physically realistic, though. The Halo could be built with materials we are able to synthesize today; although we can't synthesize them in the vast quantities would would be required. More to the point is that Halo is internally consistent. Even if it required materials with properties not seen in nature, we could say what those properties were. Halo makes logical sense, which is far more important than physical sense when it comes to suspension of disbelief.

As someone working on Halo 3 I wish I could respond to this. I guess you guys will just have to wait.

Anyway, the most obvious problem that came immediately to mind is the fact that a space faring civilization was unable to detect and prevent the collision of an asteroid or comet in the first place. Even now, we have sophisticated techniques for preventing impacts from large asteroids and can detect them years and even decades in advance. It would seem more probable that an organization/government intentionally diverted the asteroid to collide with the planet to achieve political goals of some sort. It’s already been proposed in our time that we might intentionally divert an asteroid or comet to collide with Mars, thereby delivering valuable stores of water to its barren surface. Someone could very easily use this knowledge maliciously.

The second obvious problem, which has already been mentioned is that any body large enough to remove the mantle of the planet would undoubtedly destroy all life on the planet in the process. It seems that you're overarching idea is that you need to get off the planet before an impending disaster occurs. Why not just cut to the chase and make the impending disaster the collision by the asteroid or comet? If you adopt my idea that the asteroid is on a collision course by malicious intention then you might actually have some interesting possibilities. What if the government is the only organization that knows about it and is keeping the impending disaster hidden from the public eye. Then your main character can discover this conspiracy cover up and take action to counter it. Of course, finding a motive is going to be the difficult part.

I agree with lightbringer's comments above regarding the interesting storytelling possibilities. I don't think you mention what kind of game you're planning, but perhaps the player can try to avert the impending disaster, help as many people as possible get off the planet, scam money from people desperate to leave, or somehow discover the disaster itself is a scam.