I grab my guitar, I grab a plectrum, and i jam.. I now have a bunch of semi complete songs that I am rather proud of. With all this music software etc, do people actually still use the old methods to write songs? I would rather do simple tweaking with levels and perhaps some effects, with the software. If used correctly, then software can help you be creative, if used incorrectly, or too much, then software can really get in the way of creativity and make your song less human and more "Perfect". I dont like perfect, perfect does not invoke emotion. Please let me know, to what level do you use the software? Also, How much wealth do you put on each song? Do you write a song everyday? Or do you prefer to throw away the rubbish and focus on trying to create only gems like me? I have been working on these songs probably for about 8 - 10 months on and off. I do not play guitar everyday and technically i cant play well. I am just awesome at writing simple songs. Thanks

I play guitar most days, and use the computer to record it, and add the backing tracks. I expect there are lots of people in the same situation. Obviously it's not so practical if you want to record a baroque or classical piece and you don't have harpsichords or double basses lying around. The same goes for those who write electronic music, since it's usually not practical to have 101 different synths around your room.

Having said that, I'm always looking for ways in which technology can help with the writing of songs. Something like Ableton Live which lets you record sections of a song and then play them back seamlessly in an arbitrary order can help get the creativity flowing, because seeing how parts flow or harmonise together is just a keypress away. Unfortunately I can't justify paying $199 for just that feature so I'm not doing that at the moment! Another thing is that it gives you a psychological boost: as much as I enjoy playing my guitar, it sounds so much better to have 4 layers of it played at once, with bass and drums backing it up. It encourages me to continue.

I write lots of small bits of material, such as 10-20 seconds of guitar riffs or harmonies, and later attempt to string them into songs, hopefully with a little more subtlety and structure than simply chaining bits together. I probably only write a new song every 3 months or so but I intend ramping up that level in the near future. I don't think there's anything I write which I don't intend using, but ultimately there is a filtering process where some of these parts never seem to find their way into a song.

I'm only a dabbler at music composition, but I like improvising stuff on my keyboard to wind down at the end of the day. I usually have half a dozen or so songs that I'm working on that basically consist of me playing chords with my left hand and experimenting with the melody with my right. Occasionally I'll try to turn this into a song on my computer.

The main drawback for me just straight recording is that I'm not a very good technical keyboard player; I make tons of mistakes and my timing can be way off. I really like having the capability of tweaking things on a piano roll or music score, or just re-recording a measure that I've screwed up. I also can't play guitar, bass or the drums, so it's nice to be able to figure out the accompaniment in stages. I pretty much figure out things by trial and error, and it's nice to have the computer to help with that step.

Hmmm... it still amazes me how people can write songs on the guitar. The way it's played just seems to stagnate any sense of musical freedom. I much prefer the piano (not a keyboard, they disgust me), although I consider myself to be higly proficient with both (moreso the piano). I understand the people who do write good songs on guitar are probably a vigintillion times better than me, but still, it is just much easier to be able to jump all over the place and have 80+ strings as opposed to 6 (or 12, or 7 or whatever).

Composing on an instrument is the only way to go about it for me, playing with effects and what-not (man Reason is cool!) comes AFTER the song, not before... although it can help if say you're writing an orchestral piece and you can then hear what each instrument really (well, artificially at least) sounds like - it helps you gauge an idea of the sound and helps you remember the orchestra you heard in your head three minutes ago while playing.

Quote: Original post by Trapper Zoid
I usually have half a dozen or so songs that I'm working on that basically consist of me playing chords with my left hand and experimenting with the melody with my right.

I have a similar style to you; left hand chords, right hand just going nuts, although try reversing the roles; try arpeggiating a chord in the right hand while playing a melody in the bass. It's harder than you think and can yield interesting results.

Quote: Original post by Humanoid Typhoon[/]
I dont like perfect, perfect does not invoke emotion.

Perfect DOES invoke emotion! Perfect is when the music makes you close your eyes and feel it coursing through your torso and into your limbs, and I don't mean music that makes you want to dance, I mean music that brings back every memory of a certain colour (happy, sad etc.) to the forefront of your mind. Rhythmic and tonal perfection, however (what you're talking about (I know I'm a prick)), restricts actual perfection and that's when music becomes bland. Compare Mozart's Sonatas with Beethoven's. Beethoven's rape Mozart's anyday because they're so much freer and are full of emotion rather than style and cultural influence; Beethoven's came from the heart!!

Anyway, I'm done with my rant... I love music, and no computer or electric instrument will ever emulate for me the joy of sitting at a 9ft Steinway Grand Piano (I wish I owned one!) in a large, empty room and just playing whatever I feel for hours on end. But yes, piano rolls etc. do help with the composition process, especially when you're the only one doing the song.

Well thanks, some interesting answers.

When I said perfect does not invoke emotion, I mean more like every little "mistake" in the song and effectively all of the character of the song is altered to make it more "clean" as if you fed a bunch of numbers into a computer and it played the song exactly how it is on paper. I must say that I generally prefer ambient background sound as opposed to them cutting that out. (for example see Pixies-SurferRosa where they recorded the guitars in a closet, sounds like it too). Its earie and beautiful. White stripes is a good example of ambience too. I love that kind of raw sound. Makes me feel like im right there with them. I also like all the little details that you notice when listening over and over to music that was recorded in a more raw style, or atleast made to sound that way. It is not played to perfection. Vocals can be fixed these days with pro tools. Its sad. I like to hear the emotion in voice, by wavering, trailing off, slightly out of key etc.. That taps my emotions more than if someone were to "clean up" all the "dirt" and make it sound less human. Kinda like a live performance to me is more powerful than a track on a cd.

To me slight imperfection is perfection. I find the love for imperfection lasts longer than for perfection. Imperfection makes me close my eyes. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing, or perhaps we are talking about opposite things, I am still not sure ^_^

Im not sure if I would apply this to other genres too, but to my genre this holds true.

"Hmmm... it still amazes me how people can write songs on the guitar. The way it's played just seems to stagnate any sense of musical freedom."

If you have the right influences then you will learn from them, how to overcome the perceived limitations of the guitar. I have not played piano and i have no doubt that once you go there then guitar would seem very restrictive. Ofcourse you could say the same thing with instruments that are not as restrictive as the piano. I suppose each person finds the amount of freedom that best suites them and works to their advantage and writing style =P

This is a very interesting thread! Most of the time I am on the computer writing music because I have to be. My job requires me to produce digital audio that can be synced with either film, animation or video games. Also, most of my clients do not have the budgets to pay for a "live" performance played by actual musicians so I have to do everything myself.

While this is limiting, from a company stand point it allows for a lower bottom line and it is also easier for me to make edits and revisions when working alone. Can you imagine if I recorded a full orchestra and choir live only to later find out the property or project want changes!? Then I'd have to go back, rewrite the music then book the studio and musicians and re-record. The cost figure would just be way too high and would take up more time.

Also working with these programs allows me to take other componants and mix them together into one master file. I have to work with voice overs, sound design and music on a daily basis and without the proper software I wouldn't be able to do my job. In my spare time, I write music with a jazz-funk band. We'll plug in our instruments, turn up the amps and then just jam. Sometimes I have loosely written charts that provide a basic road map, while other times it is completely free and improvised.

I agree, some musicians write music on the computer that sound WAY too perfect or inorganic. I think the trick is to be able to make some imperfections in your pieces to where it almost sounds like an actual live recording. On a side note, recording yourself playing is a GREAT way to get an objective and real evaluation of your playing. I've found sometimes while playing I don't catch as many things as I do when I go back and listen to myself play. It is a great way to grow and learn what you're doing well, and what you're doing poorly.

Great topic!

[Edited by - nsmadsen on October 19, 2007 1:24:02 PM]

Very nice topic indeed :)

It is nice to see these different working methods and I think it is good that there are other workaround then just sitting behind a computer and making music. It still is music and somethimes it is indeed almost too synthetic and the feeling that it is actually played (or created when playing) gets a bit lost.

When I was a teenager and started playing guitar I wrote music in the same way. My only problem was that I had so many ideas and that my playing was too limited hehe. It was quite frustrating for me to work in that way.

A few years later I started with a study of composition of classical music and since that moment I write the even more old fashioned way I guess :P
I take out sheets of music paper and a pencil and off we go :D For me this is the best way. Most of the constructions and ideas I tend to work out in my head before I even go to the paper. When I think it is done for 80% I write everything down.

90% of my music is written for live-occassions and that is a great. Bring your score to an ensemble and from there on the real playing starts.

The last year I moved on to composing for games and movies and that requires suddenly a different approach which is also fascinating. Suddenly the score is not is not your tool anymore to achieve the final product. I had to go out of these boundries and create final products in my studio. In the beginning it was frustrating, but lately I start to see some advances as well though I still miss the interaction with the musicians. For me the challenge has started to threath my studio as a musician and now I experiment and "jam" with buttons.

The use of software is just a tool and not a goal. I think that is what we have to keep in mind (in my opinion and it doesnt matter how you achieve things. Whether it is playing it all in with a guitar or like I do, insert every note with a mouse in Finale and then export it to whatever sampler etc.

The music comes directly into my head without improvisation on an instrument. I write my music out in full score, even if no musicians will play it. I never use loops or pre performed riffs. I am old school. I could print out any one of my game soundtracks for real performers right now.

Quote: Original post by HumanoidTyphoon
To me slight imperfection is perfection. I find the love for imperfection lasts longer than for perfection. Imperfection makes me close my eyes. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing, or perhaps we are talking about opposite things, I am still not sure ^_^

We are indeed talking about the EXACT same thing... FINALLY I find an intelligent person in the world! It ruins music to use a computer to fix errors - humans aren't perfect and therefore music should not be! Live music, well if the band is good live I suppose, is so much more powerful than studio music! Listen to the recorded version of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd, and then listen to the live version. Incomparable! Just that feeling that rushes through you when you can not only hear the instruments but feel them! Ooooh, it's giving me shivers just thinking about it...

Yeah, I'm a little strange, but what can I say? I love music, but I love real musicians better; not those try-hard DJs (although some are good) and rappers/R&B singers that aren't actually talented!

I work on a primetime TV show in the USA that has a lot of music performed live every week. There are 2 primary arrangers and 1-2 other arrangers who take on additional charts when the lead guys get too busy. All the arrangers work the "old fashioned" way by writing out their charts by hand. They are usually required to transcribe songs by ear from a recording and then arrange them for the show's band.

Their primary tools for this work are a CD player, a piano, pencil, and staff paper. It's much faster to work this way when arranging, and these guys can crank out arrangements at a ridiculously fast rate! They're some of the best in the business.

Recently heard a story from some colleagues working over at Paramount about a young composer who came in to the music copying office with a dead computer and a pressing deadline. He was saying that there was no way he could write and was in a real panic. People looked at each other and were quite dumbfounded. The composer was standing in an office that had tons of music paper and several piano keyboards! Everybody was just shaking their heads.

In the game world, some of my clients do write on pencil and paper, however most seem unable to write without a computer handy. It really makes you wonder what kind of future there is for game music when so many game composers lack the basic ability to simply compose without tons of supporting equipment. Guess that's why people on this board talk about bland game music. When the machine determines one's ability to write, it's also dictating what that person can write.