NOTE: THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A INSULT TO GAMEDEV. Well, I am a high school graduate waiting to apply for college, and I have a big interest in animation, so one of the paths I am willing to take after college is to work on games as an 3D animator(and that I mean being able to model and texture as well, as they usually teach you ALL the basics in college), but I see many people here who claim to be in college come here to work on "Hobbyist" games, and some people here actually put in effort, but what's the worth of a college education if you never will work for a professional company, and actually be paid for your worth? I know some of the college students or graduates here, even though have the education, still have mediocre art. Though is it because they aren't skilled? Maybe, but college is expensive, someone(your parents or yourself) wants to see rewards for forking out the dough. So the only REAL way to go forth and harvest your "potential" I think would mostly be a professional career. Here people can diss or compliment your work on GameDev, and give you their "two cents", but even a literal two cents isn't going to pay for the bills or groceries after college. As I can see professional studio staff are run by "professional creative artists"(Art Directors, Professional "Seniors" or "Leads") who direct the artwork and style, yes you have to have good skills, but if your starting out I am pretty sure in the meetings and discussions they HELP YOU and you HELP THEM mold the game's world. Which brings me on another thing I see on the forums, and that is people looking for mentors or tutors on the Help Wanted. Yes you can try and probably find someone more experienced, but are they technically a professional in the industry? I think the "professional creative artists"(Art Directors, Professional "Seniors" or "Leads") in some way or another also can be your mentor/tutor(s), as they will be your leaders and co-workers on projects, and also another good teacher. Which is time working on and molding industry titles. So I would like to end at the point that, maybe if you just an artist in your freetime and love working with other hobbyists, it's might be okay, but are you really looking for a better opportunity?

For the life of me, I can't figure out what your post is trying to say.

You ask a few questions, but they sound as though they are directed to specific people, and certainly don't apply in the general case.

Are you asking about the importance of college? Earning the degree is not just about taking classes in a field. You learn a lot of other things along the way, and will quite likely gain a lot of maturity in the process.

Are you asking about professionals mentoring you? When you enter the real world work force, you will almost certainly be assigned to work on a team who will help teach you.

Are you suggesting that individuals should skip or abandon college in favor of jumping strait into their careers? In that case, you need to wake up and look around at what is expected. Most places (including where I work) will simply throw out applications if they don't have a degree or are finishing their final year. This applies to artists as well as programmers.

Was there was some other comment you were trying to make? Perhaps you should consider investing in the college English and Communications classes to help you learn to focus your writing on a specific goal.


I look forward to your reply, clarifying what your original post was actually talking about.

I think the quick answer to what you saying is simply this:

Its about building a portfolio. If you think your just going to race off to college and find a kick ass job in the game industry with no experience out side of school then you will find a lot of closed doors when you try.

People do come here that are in college (me for example) to get help with there own projects or to help people on there projects. But in the end anything you do while you in college (your on animations, models or working on indy games as a hobby) can go into your portfolio to show off then you go for that all important interview.

So its simply they want to succeed so they work on hobby games so they have things to show.

No, I am not asking questions, just trying to have a discussion. Yes building a portfolio is a good thing, and hobbyist projects can help you, but many of the jobs I see nowadays ask for EXPERIENCE, which can only be given in a proffesional career, how all the jobs say that now...is kind wierd because if they want all of the people in industry to start with already having experience, that just kicks all the newcomers out, I see many good members on GameDev, but the other thing about my topic is people who get an education in a certain field should aim in actually getting a job in the Gaming Industy.

Quote: Original post by BrioCyrain
....but many of the jobs I see nowadays ask for EXPERIENCE, which can only be given in a proffesional career, how all the jobs say that now...is kind wierd because if they want all of the people in industry to start with already having experience...

your missing something.
1. Those adverts are for experienced staff because experienced staff are in short supply and they need to work harder to find them. The Companies don't advertise for entry level staff because they don't need to, they get lots of applicants for entry level jobs even if they don't advertise.
2. The majority of staff in a team will be experienced so the majority of job adverts will be for experienced staff. Even if a company does advertise their entry level positions the majority of their adverts will still be for experienced staff.
3. Many entry level positions are filled through internal routes (team members recommend people they know) or through internship programs so never need to be advertised externally.

Quote: Original post by Obscure

Quote: Original post by BrioCyrain
....but many of the jobs I see nowadays ask for EXPERIENCE, which can only be given in a proffesional career, how all the jobs say that now...is kind wierd because if they want all of the people in industry to start with already having experience...

your missing something.
1. Those adverts are for experienced staff because experienced staff are in short supply and they need to work harder to find them. The Companies don't advertise for entry level staff because they don't need to, they get lots of applicants for entry level jobs even if they don't advertise.
2. The majority of staff in a team will be experienced so the majority of job adverts will be for experienced staff. Even if a company does advertise their entry level positions the majority of their adverts will still be for experienced staff.
3. Many entry level positions are filled through internal routes (team members recommend people they know) or through internship programs so never need to be advertised externally.

QFT. I work at a game development company and each point corresponds with what I've seen.

Quote:
as they usually teach you ALL the basics in college

And... here's where I think your concept of things falls over. College is not trade school and even art/trade schools won't teach you all the basics (business culture, source control programs, how to interact with coworkers well, how to deal with unreasonable requirements, how to fudge something out the door quick....)

Experience teaches a lot of these things, and gives you something to put on your resume. This is why people sign on for hobbyist positions; or that they couldn't land a professional job (high competition, even skilled people are left out at times) and are doing something else professionally to pay the bills.

2 other points for business in general:

1. Job requirements are... "requirements". It's rare that a company gets applicants that fulfill everything on the req. If experience is lacking, but other things are above and beyond... that's taken into account. Plus it gives companies a good excuse to pay you less than the listed salary for the position.

2. Job requirements at big companies are posted by HR drones. Since it's their job to staff the company with the best people, they tend to post req's for the super ideal person to fill the slot. Managers tend to be a little more realistic.

Quote: Original post by BrioCyrain
Well, I am a high school graduate waiting to apply for college, and I have a big interest in animation, so one of the paths I am willing to take after college is to work on games as an 3D animator(and that I mean being able to model and texture as well, as they usually teach you ALL the basics in college), but I see many people here who claim to be in college come here to work on "Hobbyist" games, and some people here actually put in effort, but what's the worth of a college education if you never will work for a professional company, and actually be paid for your worth?

College students working on hobbyist games, how is that wrong? Creating a portfolio while in school will actually increase your chance when applying for a job.

Quote: Which brings me on another thing I see on the forums, and that is people looking for mentors or tutors on the Help Wanted. Yes you can try and probably find someone more experienced, but are they technically a professional in the industry?

What makes you think that professionals are better tutors? And what makes you think professionals even want to be tutors? Most hobbyist probably don't even feel like it.


It looks like you're a little obsessed with the word 'professional'.

A successful hobby project can get you job offers. And if not job offers, it can get you contacts that can help getting job offers.

It also is a playground to test things without big dangers. It doesn't have to become successful, although it's nice if it does. There you can try new art styles, new technologies, new game concepts without pressure of having immediate success. If it fails, you learned that this approach wasn't good, and usually you also learn in the course why it didn't work and gives you ideas what might work better.

A hobby project also might teach you more, if you have teammates in the hobby project, you'll learn a bit about how to motivate and lead a group, or if you are not the leader, how to work in a group. There will be tensions and different ideas, skills in getting people together will make or break this project. Better you learn such in a hobby project than in a professional project. Particularly if it's your own money in that professional project.

At some point if your hobby project shows some success, you are starting to learn about customer care, about handling requests of the users, and also how to deal with angry and evil people who do not like your project for whatever reason.

You'll see that documentation is needed, people will demand it for some sorts of projects (e.g. a game engine). You'll see that representation and reputation must be taken care of. Many things no college can teach you that thoroughly.

The mentoring comes natural for some people. They like to share their experience and like to bring others to successful paths. Also, mentoring is training again, only if you can teach something, you know you have truly understood. Nothing but a try in teaching will unveil lacking knowledge as much. Once you can teach successfully, you know you have mastered the topic to a good extend.

In professional projects someone with good mentoring skills can be very valuable.

I see nothing bad in hobby projects, even if you try to become a professional, or even if you are a professional and do it as hobby in your free time. Schools can only teach you so much, experience is what they cannot give you, but a hobby project can.

1. As others have said, I don't see how working on hobbyist games whilst at college implies they aren't going to try for a professional job when they graduate.

2. There's more to professional jobs than games. Some people such as myself may have professional jobs in other areas (whether it's development or art), and have an interest in working on games in their spare time.