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Music versus Graphics - How to identify quality

Started by JesseHopkins Feb 9, 2008 at 11:23 PM 10 replies 2.2k views
Original Post
JesseHopkins
JesseHopkins
Everyone seems to be able to identify "programmer art", and also seem to be able to identify when someone is simply using photoshop filters. But what is it about music that makes its so that most people can't identify when someone is simply slapping together some loops? I find that a lot of competition for music jobs comes from people who don't really compose, but mix together different loops. Is music really so unimportant, that the equivalent of using "Snowflakes" brush in Photoshop is a widely sought after sound? Is there any way that developers, film directors and the like could be educated as to the impact of fully created music versus pasting loops and performance phrases together? Here's a link to an article that is much in line with this question? http://finalnote.blogspot.com/2007/11/new-editors-when-composers-stop.html "The New Editors: When Composers Stop Composing It started in television music about ten years ago by my recollection, and has picked up steam every year. The birth of the editor, the death of the composer. When composers stop writing notes and start stringing together loops, atmospheres and hits, I’m not so sure that is still composing. To me, it’s a lot more like editing, and most composers I know who have had to do this to “keep up” with current trends are not very happy about it. Sure, it’s quick and easy to slap together some rhythm loops, pads, hits and such, but to me doing this kind of “assembly work” isn’t why I studied music for many years. So when did melodies become something to be avoided rather than something to be appreciated? Let’s go back a few decades… Historians tell us that the 60 second theme “song” that was popularized in the 1970s with hit shows like Mission: Impossible, The Waltons, and Little House on the Prairie were designed to have striking, easily identifiable melodies designed to alert the entire household that the show was on so everyone could wrap up what they were doing and come to the living room and gather around the television. In the 1980s, we saw three interesting phenomenon: the entrance to the scoring business of songwriters from rock bands, the wide availability of synthesizers and early samplers, and the popularization of minimalism as a music form. For those who believe that composing is writing notes for live players to play, this was the perfect storm. People were being hired to score television shows and films who were much more comfortable writing grooves and pads and thought in terms of “chords” rather than notes, and these people had readily available electronic means of generating sound rather than having to write music playable by live players. Meanwhile, during the 1980s we saw what many consider to be the heyday of television music with live musicians, with weekly dramas from Dynasty to Dallas, from Remington Steele to Moonlighting and so much more, all done with live orchestra. Synthesizers’ early experimental usage in television from the mid 1970s on when they were a novelty (who can forget the infamous “Synare” synthesized pitch-falling drum used ad nauseum during this time) expanded into limited usage to accompany some live orchestras. But for TV in the 1980s, live orchestras ruled the day. Then came scores for films like Risky Business and others where the musical form of minimalism – bare, minimal repeating figures going on in various ways for a long time – became popular. The availability in the 1980s of early hardware sequencers where sequences of notes that would repeat at an exact tempo could be programmed followed by early computer based MIDI created a composing environment where melodies by live players was almost passé, technology bravely leading the way for new, unexplored frontiers in modern composing. The 1990s brought much better sounding sampled audio, including drum and rhythm loops and patterns with variations, fills, endings, and much more. The early “Symphonic Adventures” and other CDs of sampled orchestra riffs were a sign of things to come, as composers started to become editors – taking arrangements of recorded musical phrases and editing them and putting them together. The 1990s saw the rapid decline of orchestras used in television scores, and by the mid 1990s the few shows left with orchestras included the Star Trek various series, The Simpsons, and a couple of others. Most shows were scored using hybrid scores – sampled instruments plus a very small number of live instruments added to create an organic sound. As the use of orchestras declined and the availability in the late 1990s of better sample loops increased, we saw the emergence of the edited score. 2001 brought us what many believe to be the first major TV theme created by loops and samples with the theme to Alias, composed by the show’s producer JJ Abrams using early sample looping software. Since then there’s been a very clear trend in television music: a theme is no longer a melody composed of notes. Instead, it s a feeling, a groove, a rhythm, and increasingly, a song. Maybe it’s related to the fact that theme music for television is now 10-30 seconds long, and maybe it’s a result of television producers wanting to appeal to a “younger” demographic who, they think, would rather enjoy a groove than be bothered by a pesky melody, or maybe they just think melodies are old fashioned and dated, only to be played by the orchestras and live players of yesteryear (aka the 1970s and 1980s). Where television music is headed is anyone’s guess, but let’s not forget about the art of writing notes, writing melodies, and writing music. Editing samples, loops, pads, phrases and hits is quick and “cool”, but it hardly compares to the art of writing notes played by live musicians. Posted by Mark Northam"
speciesUnknown
speciesUnknown
This may be close to your heart, but its completely over my head.
Don't thank me, thank the moon's gravitation pull! Post in My Journal and help me to not procrastinate!
Marmin
Marmin
Your post is too deep for me. But. The perfect music for your project is the music that fits it. Don't search for music that is not suitable for your project, and if you can't figure it out hire a music director.
There's nothing deep about that. The difficult part is finding the right music for your project.

Identifying quality requires talent, skill, and education.
Avatar God
Avatar God
Sometimes mixed loops are the most appropriate pieces of music possible for a game. And I'm big on appropriateness for music and graphics in games. Besides, have you heard some of the mixed loops that some people make? There's nothing inherently bad or low-quality about them.

...Obviously that's a dumb question - I know you have. But some people love that stuff - rap isn't exactly hurting for a following. And I can't deny that there is essentially no case where fully custom-crafted music would not be better than an amalgamation of loops (except in the case where the loops are so carefully worked throughout that it's essentially fully custom-made anyway). But often the other is good enough, or great enough, that it can stand well on its loop-based merit and be enjoyed and appropriate - for potentially significantly less time and cost.

On an aside, you're good at creating music, and kudos for the thread. And I can tell the difference.

edit: Something else relevant: looped music is easier to use in a game for practical reasons. It's much more difficult to extend and move between pieces of a custom piece than it is to do so with loops (if the music is dynamic). Still, Baldur's Gate worked around this with more crafted music, but the system was much more unwieldy than the alternative.
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Benjamin Heath
Benjamin Heath
Quote:
Original post by JesseHopkins
Is there any way that developers, film directors and the like could be educated as to the impact of fully created music versus pasting loops and performance phrases together?
Well, education can be tossed away when the class is over. People do what they want. However, I'd say it's not just music either. Films like Moulin Rouge would demonstrate camera work where no shot ever lasts more than a few seconds. The Bourne Identity, which I still enjoy, uses the "documentary-style" shaky camera garbage. Commercials on TV seem louder and more obnoxious now-- particularly the ones for car dealerships and erectal dysfunction. I think producers are getting the point about too much reality TV, in light of newer shows out, but then a lot of them are updates of old shows. (I'm looking square at you, NBC.) Granted, those updates may very well be ratings ploys to get people to watch the shows that come on before or afterwards... the ones that aren't updates. :P

I think what it comes down to is that you can't please everybody, and that includes the very creative people who even work on those shows. Hence, as always, we have to channel creativity in different ways in light of compromise, which, of course, is frustrating.
Oluseyi
Oluseyi
Sounds like snobbery to me. It asserts that the use of loops and samples is somehow "lesser" - classic elitism. Ironically, it is the "lesser," populist form that has changed the music landscape, compelling film scores and advertising, television and traditional composers to bend to its will.
zedz
zedz
to the OP i agree completely
but in the sage words of pete townshend
'if u stay away from quality youre alright'

actually its scary how easy its to make 'passable' music nowadays.
a few months ago i stuck together a piece just by punching some random notes with the mouse, in fact u have to struggle to not get it sounding 'passable'
Avatar God
Avatar God
Re: Seyi, I point to my previous post. At least it seems that way to me.

It is really easy to make passable music with loops, I must say (of course, I create each bit of the loops, and try to string them together in interesting patterns with different mixes, instrumentations, and even note... but that's the whole point, isn't it?). That's much more in line with the amount of time and skill I have, for sure, and thus is precisely what I'll be using. Thankfully I'm not making sound for pro-level games, though. I'd certainly hire someone who knew what s/he was doing for that.
gsgraham.comSo, no, zebras are not causing hurricanes.
Daaark
Daaark
Music is just noise arranged in a pleasant to listen to way. I don't care how it came to be made. I don't care about weather it was composed or edited, or weather there are a ton of filters over someone's voice.

If it sounds good, it sounds good.

You can make the same distinctions everywhere else.

  • C vs ASM

  • 3D Renderer vs Classic painting skills

  • Classic painting skills vs chipping away at stone

  • Printing vs Calligraphy

  • Lead pencils with allow erasing vs ink

  • Electric vs acoustic instruments

  • Computerized coloring of animation frames vs hand painted cells


  • Hell, who wants to read a book that came off an automated press? I'd much rather read something that was copied by hand! As technology progresses, new tools come into play that allow people to create differently, and easier than was done in the past. If it sounds good, than it sounds good, and who is to judge it's method of creation?

    Timbaland is known for grabbing public domain loops and using them for his tracks. But he has a talent for it, and the stuff he produces sounds good and is fun to listen to. I can transition from that to a track from the Doors, and I don't see a reason to distinguish between them.

    Not that I am comparing Timbaland to the Doors. They were talented composers, while he is a talented 'hack'. The end result is still music I have fun listening to. They are 2 different methods to create the same result, and a direct comparison isn't really fair.
    denver
    denver
    The whole mixing loops thing is very exaggerated. Most people who use loops also compose original melodies or beats on top of them. Or you can cut up the original loop and re-arrange or repitch it. In this process you are composing in the same way as "traditional" music.

    Everything in that post is extremely elitist, misinformed and biased. BS
    / what matters most ishow well you walk through thefire. /
    RivieraKid
    RivieraKid
    i find music which loops too much very annoying - See most pop music, urghh!!
    Calabi
    Calabi
    I think the Op has a point, it does seem as if there is a lack of creativity out there.

    http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/H/how_music_works/

    This documentary was made, which explains a lot about music of which I didnt have a clue. Whereas some people can make music by throwing together bits and pieces, and measuring it subconsiouly, they may do better if they were more aware of what they were doing and the purpose of the different things.

    I shouldnt say it because I know I'll get shouted down, but there does appear to be a general degradation in the arts.

    I think its due to a general homogenisation and a fear of being to bold in the mainstream industrys. How likely are we to hear a soundtrack like blade runners in a movie or game now. All I hear is generic noise, from the majority of games I've played, especially RPGs. They all seem to use the same heroic symphonies.

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