Call me crazy (Spent $480 on a course)

i dunno, sounds like a very expensive interactive book.

i found this page quite a horrible read. Alot of unprofessional waffle which i found hard to take seriously.

will you have direct contact with this fello?

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Original post by RivieraKid i dunno, sounds like a very expensive interactive book. i found this page quite a horrible read. Alot of unprofessional waffle which i found hard to take seriously. will you have direct contact with this fello?

The guy has released a few videos with him and is well know from his previous program. But yes, that page does look bloated with _stuff_

/MindWipe

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Original post by MindWipe Ok, I've never done this before. I'm always reading lots online what gurus like Eben Pagan, Frank Kern etc. has to say about building a business. And now this other guru, John Reese, started selling his Traffic Secrets 2.0 program online. About how to increase traffic to your site in many many ways. And the guy is said to be great and he and his team has developed this product for a longer time now. Traffic Secrets 1.0 was apparently very good too.

From who did you hear that Traffic Secrets 1.0 was very good?
Have you attempted to do any research about this topic yourself?

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Original post by MindWipe And Frank Kern offered you a bonus of his material if your ordered it before midnight today. (If you know who he is).

Marketing tactic, offer incentive + deadline to exert pressure for the sale.

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Original post by MindWipe Anyway, I have now spent $400 + $80 (s/h) on this program. I've never spent that much money before on something like this. It almost feels scary. But to get anywhere you must take action. And you get access to a online community with probably like minded people and get free further updates. So that sounds good.

I'm surprised at how brave you are...
It's very likely that this "community" could be completely made up, or worthless, or not worth the time.

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Original post by MindWipe Was this a huge waste of money?

You'll have to be the judge of that.

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Original post by MindWipe I hope some of you successful gamedevers think it might be worth while. But I'm not betting my money on it. /MindWipe

Personally, after a little bit of googling, I think it isn't worthwhile. But didn't you just bet your money on it?

You should always check out things like ripoffreport.com and the online version of the better business bureau.

And really, in my experience, I've found that if you find yourself having to check these sites because the site seems dubious, then it most likely deserves your doubt.

Always always always be wary of people trying to sell you quick solutions, "easy" money, shortcuts, tips, tricks, or basically anything that seems too good to be true!

If their stuff worked, everyone would be rich!

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Original post by OminousZounds If their stuff worked, everyone would be rich!

QFT.

How much is each visitor worth to you? Find out how many of your visitors turn into paying customers (or click on ads) and do some math to figure out exactly how many of your visitors are converting.

How much of a traffic increase have you noticed on your site, if any?

The hard thing about this (mostly with SEO) is that it's difficult to determine exactly what works and what doesn't, which is why there are so many "SEO Gurus" out there because it's very difficult to measure how well your optimizations are working in a short amount of time. They can swoop in, tell you they can do incredible things for your traffic, get your money, and that's that. Only time will tell how well their methods worked.

I'm not saying this Frank Kern guy is that way, but $480 seems like a hefty amount. I probably wouldn't do it, as you have tons of fantastic resources online like SitePoint. The only traffic I would pay for would be via Google AdWords, which actually has worked out pretty well for what I'm doing.

I'm sure you have one already, but if you don't, you should get a Google Analytics account. It's invaluable for measuring this sort of stuff.

I'm morally opposed to paying money for information that deep down inside you already know.

Is this guy REALLY telling you stuff you don't know or couldn't find out with some effort on your part? Is the $480 worth the time and effort that you could spend getting, and more imporantly, applying information to head towards success?

I've started 2 small businesses and seen many people start their own, some failed and some succeeded. The ones that made it were the ones that just buckled down and did shit. There is no miracle pill or piece of information that will make you successful, on the internet or in person. It comes down to whether or not you have the discipline to do what you already know how to do.

If I'm full of shit and it ends up making you tons of money, then please let me know and I'll buy it too.

Ok, thanks guys!

Yeah, I guess I expected answers like the ones I got.

I mostly trust this because Eben Pagan (also known as David DeAngelo) had a program called Double Your Dating. Studying it alot for a longer time increased my dating from ZERO to SOMETHING. And it really made me who I am, much more self confident etc.

This Eben Pagan guy then started looking into business. And the guy is great. I love his material. And I put trust in this guy, I don't think he's trying to fool people out of money. But this trust I've gotten over years. Unfortunately his program about becoming a buisness guru takes more time and more money. He had a home study course I really wanted, but it sold out before I got my Visa ;) But Eben mentions John Reese, and John Reese is apparently a buddy of Frank Kern, and Frank Kern and Eben are good buddies. So that way I put some trust in Reese. And googling John Reese (although I found it hard, I'm not sure what of the result I trust) did seem to show up some good stuff.

This is not a get-rich-quick-scheme, but a company that has studied how to increase your traffic. If his first version was crap and cheated people out of their money (And it cost $999) then it would be wildly known. It really seemed to increase traffic to many sites.

An my math is the following:

1. Googling this stuff probably turns up all the same info in the end. But there's much to filter. What is truly worth implementing? And how do I know what is what? This, no matter if it's really that good, has still had people doing their research behind it.

2. It's still not _that_ much if it's worth it (Or worth it to some extend). How much have one spent on books that have not helped very much?


And further more. In the end, getting success is about taking action, and I have reason to believe this works. And $480 will not bankrupt me, it equals a few "wet" weekends. Sitting home gooling a bit, implementing something you happened to find, might not really give the results I want. By having paid this much I will study the material. And I will implement what I read, some atleast.

But I'll let you all know how it turns out! So you won't spend your money. And this program does have a 48days money back guarantee if your not satisfied. And I'm quite sure it's real, as the guy is still well known, not someone who's sitting in his basement putting together a package to earn money. Who knows, maybe I'll take him up on that offer?

/MindWipe

If it saves you 5-10 or more hours research and gets the same result, that would be considered break-even from my point of view, since I could make $480 in that amount of time.

For anyone looking into SEO, find and read the "MicroISV on a shoestring" blog. He covers many tools and is totally open with all his figures, even $$$.

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Original post by d000hg If it saves you 5-10 or more hours research and gets the same result, that would be considered break-even from my point of view, since I could make $480 in that amount of time. For anyone looking into SEO, find and read the "MicroISV on a shoestring" blog. He covers many tools and is totally open with all his figures, even $$$.

Thanks. Yeah, I kinda see it lie you, if it saved me the time. And if it's any good it should, as finding out methods that really do work by googling is time consuming and implementing stuff that ends up not working is no fun. Else it's a lesson learned I guess.

I'll checkout this blog. Cheers!

/MindWipe

It's long, but there is a reader to let you view it in sequential order mentioned on the site I think.

Oh, here it is!. I make this my coffee-break reading for a couple of weeks a while back.

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Original post by MindWipe Yeah, I guess I expected answers like the ones I got.

Then why bother asking? If the answers are the ones you expect, it doesn't really help much.

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Original post by MindWipe I mostly trust this because Eben Pagan (also known as David DeAngelo) had a program called Double Your Dating. Studying it alot for a longer time increased my dating from ZERO to SOMETHING. And it really made me who I am, much more self confident etc.

Dude, I never read that crap, and I could find a girlfriend when I was 16. I gained confidence by accepting myself, and not by conditioning myself to be a PUA or whatever. Putting trust in someone because he/she provided a decent read in the past is naive in my opinion. Esp. if that trust has to cost 480 dollar.

Running a business just takes proper knowledge, being at the right time/place and having a big mouth. You should know how much I've accomplished by having a big mouth with my company. I never read stuff like this, and my company is running decent for my busy schedule. I scored myself just recently a new client for e50/hr as freelancer. Without reading all this bull...

Running a company takes more than just reading. It takes guts, making mistakes, etc. You still need to take those steps, even with reading this.

Toolmaker

I see no further point discussing in this thread, as it's now reading more like an advertisement than the OP actually seeking advice.

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Original post by OminousZounds I see no further point discussing in this thread, as it's now reading more like an advertisement than the OP actually seeking advice.

I'm suprised.

Well, I do admit I hoped a few successful gamedever would say "Well done, seeking advice, although it cost, is worth it". Not having ever spent this much on education (and with our education free in Finland) I needed to post and hear what others thought.

And toolmaker, please stop going on about your success with women and pua and whatever. We've had this discussion. Some learn how to pickup women growing up, some don't. They who don't do wisely if they seek the advice themselves, the advice of course is valuable, hence selling it is a business. But that doesn't mean it won't give result. Reading advice on personal development had a huge effect on me, reading advice on increasing your traffic may do the same.

/MindWipe

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Original post by MindWipe Was this a huge waste of money? I hope some of you successful gamedevers think it might be worth while. But I'm not betting my money on it.

What exactly are you looking for, you already bought it? Why not read/view that stuff and make up your own opinion?

Without going into unnecessary flaming comments about its content, I can say that from reading that page, I can conclude it's not for me, especially not since I have to pay for it. But if you're happy spending the money on it, go right ahead. :)

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Original post by WanMaster Quote: Original post by MindWipe Was this a huge waste of money? I hope some of you successful gamedevers think it might be worth while. But I'm not betting my money on it. What exactly are you looking for, you already bought it? Why not read/view that stuff and make up your own opinion? Without going into unnecessary flaming comments about its content, I can say that from reading that page, I can conclude it's not for me, especially not since I have to pay for it. But if you're happy spending the money on it, go right ahead. :)

Yeah, true too late to regret it. As mentioned I was looking for someone having done something similar with good results ;)

As Eben Pagan says everyone today have a HUGE BS radar, as much on the internet is bullshit. I understand not knowing John Reese, Eben Pagan or Frank Kern this would look like bullshit.

But I guess this ends this discussion. Thanks all for posting.

/MindWipe

I signed up for a business course at a local community college once. It was on building a business plan for a small business. For $120, it did not cover anything that the $25 book on I bought at Borders on starting a small business did not cover.

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Original post by MindWipe And toolmaker, please stop going on about your success with women and pua and whatever. We've had this discussion. Some learn how to pickup women growing up, some don't. They who don't do wisely if they seek the advice themselves, the advice of course is valuable, hence selling it is a business. But that doesn't mean it won't give result. Reading advice on personal development had a huge effect on me, reading advice on increasing your traffic may do the same. /MindWipe

Agreed. That's like saying "I'm naturally good at tennis so taking lessons is a stupid idea". I'm totally sure you can learn ways to improve you confidence for public speaking, socialising, etc etc just as you can for less "woolly" areas.
And SEO/website stuff is certainly something you should be able to derive scientific data on, even if its only empirical. It's not all common sense, there's a lot of trial and error involved and therefore lessons can be distilled and passed on.

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Original post by capn_midnight I signed up for a business course at a local community college once. It was on building a business plan for a small business. For $120, it did not cover anything that the $25 book on I bought at Borders on starting a small business did not cover.

Lots of people probably have a hard time learning from books. People who start companies, even successful ones, are often not "book smart". There are many examples of people who had poor school records or even failed to graduate, but turned out to be great entrepreneurs.

MindWipe - I suggest checking the site again some days later. If you still find "Order by Midnight Tonight and get a XX% Discount!!!" then you know you've been fooled at least in that area.

If that message actually disappears tomorrow, I guess they are more honest than the average paid ebook sites.

edit: I misread your post, its the bonus material not a discount that was due by midnight. And I checked now - the bonus is gone. So they are more honest than the average :)

[Edited by - Iftah on July 20, 2008 6:40:41 AM]