Doom: Source

If this is following the Doom series that id Software created, you might want to re-think this project because you will be violating copyright laws and could be shutdown.

As well, there is a mandatory template for posting, please update your post in accordance with the rules.

Actualy , I havent heard of game-related mods being shut down, and from the way he worded things, it sounds like that is what he is getting into. Provided he is not going to sell it, and its a mod for an existing game that owns the particular IP, I dont think he is going to be getting in any trouble. Generally, if you are writing a mod for a particular game, you are ALLOWED , in fact often times encouraged, to use the content already provided by the game. User contributed mods only serve to increase the value of their existing software. If he were to release same said creation as freeware OUTSIDE the mod scene, yes, he would likely get shut down.

Yeah, a mod can never violate copyrights.

So umm, where is the rules on how should I write my post?

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Original post by PaulCesar Actualy , I havent heard of game-related mods being shut down, and from the way he worded things, it sounds like that is what he is getting into. Provided he is not going to sell it, and its a mod for an existing game that owns the particular IP, I dont think he is going to be getting in any trouble. Generally, if you are writing a mod for a particular game, you are ALLOWED , in fact often times encouraged, to use the content already provided by the game. User contributed mods only serve to increase the value of their existing software. If he were to release same said creation as freeware OUTSIDE the mod scene, yes, he would likely get shut down.

I agree with what you've said. The problem is that he's calling it "Doom: Source", which implies it's using the source engine (by Valve Software NOT Id Software). This means, potentially, he's recreating all the assets or bringing them over to a completely different game engine, which could be violating their copyrights. If he's simply creating a mod using one of id's own engines and their assets, that's one thing, when you start bringing it over to a different game engine completely that's slightly different.

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Original post by Xoom3r So umm, where is the rules on how should I write my post?

In the FAQ.

Som umm.. does anyone interested?

(and BTW, I think that I can do whatever i like, but not sell it).

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(and BTW, I think that I can do whatever i like, but not sell it).

Wrong. The quote below is taken from "10 Myths about copyright explained" by Brad Templeton.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

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2) "If I don't charge for it, it's not a violation." False. Whether you charge can affect the damages awarded in court, but that's main difference under the law. It's still a violation if you give it away -- and there can still be serious damages if you hurt the commercial value of the property. There is a USA exception for personal copying of music, which is not a violation, though courts seem to have said that doesn't include widescale anonymous personal copying as Napster. If the work has no commercial value, the violation is mostly technical and is unlikely to result in legal action. Fair use determinations (see below) do sometimes depend on the involvement of money.

Many folks simply don't really know the copyright laws and assume they'll be fine or what they're doing isn't illegal because they haven't been caught yet. It is simply not accurate.

I hope that helps out,

Nathan

I'm not really interested in joining, but thought you might like some input anyway:

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Original post by Xoom3r And I am not looking for a team, I am looking only for one guy, a programmer. Yeah, I am doing the Texture Art, Level Design, Modeling, VGUI and Animating, just seeking for a coder that won't mind spending few hours on coding some simple things.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm very skeptical about the "few hours" and "one programmer". How do you know that this is all that'll be needed?
I've made a Source mod before, and while that required a lot more code changes than a Doom remake is likely to do, I still suspect that any programmer volunteering to help you would get sucked into a far bigger task.

If you're really sure that all that's required is a few hours of a single programmer's time, you might get more responses if you explain this in a bit more detail. How can you be so sure? What exactly is it you need coded? If you can convince readers that it *is* really no big task, they might be more tempted to join up and help you.

Here we go with the copyright stuff again.

It is indeed a copyright violation regardless of whether or not the content is being sold. Simply put, if you don't have permission, it's not legal. However, that doesn't mean that id will shut the project down. I don't know how they feel about it so I can't speak for them. However, regardless of wither an IP owner will enforce copyright or not is beside the point. GameDev rules are pretty clear that anything that infringes on IP copyright is not a valid project to ask for help with.

Second, the "** READ BEFORE POSTING - MANDATORY POSTING TEMPLATE **" thread might be a good clue as to where to start looking for posting rules.

As for a discussion of copyright laws and the policies of GameDev, see this post: http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=485134

Copywrite is simple.... if you didn't create it, it insen't yours to do with as you please unless you have permission... or it can be argued if you didn't know that something was copywrited like if I would start a company called Colonel Enterprises and there is a company in germany that is called that and the name is copywrited it can be argued that you had no intent to infridge copywrite... also if you arn't selling thw product it can be not illegal in some cases. I wish I could be more specific, I'm not a copywrite lawyer...

Bear in mind that DoomRL (a roguelike based on the Doom universe) hasn't been shut down, and while it's obviously not a competitor to the real Doom in any sense, it still uses almost all of the original's canon. Still, that's a roguelike, and this is a source game. Tread lightly, lad.

You could just email iD an explain your situation/intentions. This situation isnt too far removed from the Black Mesa:source mod

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Original post by The_Colonel ... or it can be argued if you didn't know that something was copywrited like if I would start a company called Colonel Enterprises and there is a company in germany that is called that and the name is copywrited it can be argued that you had no intent to infridge copywrite...

That's not copyright. Names are trademarks, and are treated a bit differently :)

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Original post by g0dwyn Bear in mind that DoomRL (a roguelike based on the Doom universe) hasn't been shut down, and while it's obviously not a competitor to the real Doom in any sense, it still uses almost all of the original's canon. Still, that's a roguelike, and this is a source game. Tread lightly, lad.

Irrelevant. Copyright is copyright. PERIOD. As I stated, whether or not id enforces their copyright is their deal. The simple fact of the matter is that creating anything using IP of someone else without their permission goes against the rules of the Help Wanted forum. End of story.

This point has been argued at least a hundred times. Unless you're a copyright lawyer (or very well versed in copyright law) you can't argue that "It's okay because id won't do anything about it". No, it's not okay and you don't know if the IP Copyright Holder will or will not do anything about it.

Point and case: Chrono Ressurection. They weren't selling the game, it's been over 10 years since SquareEnix stopped selling the game. They didn't use any of the original artwork/content from the game -- they simply created a fan-based clone. However, because it was based on the original game it is legally considered a derivative work. They didn't have permission, SquareEnix enforced their rights, project is over.

I think this is the point where a moderator should step in and decide how to proceed. I'm not a moderator, only pointing out that you may be in violation of the posting guidelines. This need not turn into another copyright debate.

leeor_net is right on many accounts but I'm adding three things for clarity.

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Point and case: Chrono Ressurection. They weren't selling the game, it's been over 10 years since SquareEnix stopped selling the game.

This isn't completely accurate. Square released Final Fantasy Chronicles for the PS1 back in 2001. This included Chrono Trigger. So it hadn't been ten years since they had released the game. The fan-made Chrono Resurrection was closed down in 2004. So that's a total of three years. The development period for Resurrection started in April of 2003. So only two years after a re-release of Chrono Trigger, some fans set out to remake it.

Fast forward to 2008- Square announced that it is remaking and re-releasing Chrono Trigger for the DS. All of this proves that prior to and after (perhaps to some extend even during) the development of Resurrection, Square had plans and was working on releases of Chrono Trigger. More on that later.

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They didn't use any of the original artwork/content from the game -- they simply created a fan-based clone.

They may have rendered out "new" artwork for the fan-based project but since it is solely based on copyrighted artwork from the game your point is invalid. There is the likeness issue that companies can be sued for and this fan-game clearly takes all of it's inspiration and art direction from Square's IP. I mean there is not doubt. Compare the pics. They did use original artwork/content at least with regards to foundation and likeness. Plus as I understood it, the game's story was still intact just told with higher quality artwork. So this point is also invalid.

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However, because it was based on the original game it is legally considered a derivative work. They didn't have permission, SquareEnix enforced their rights, project is over.

Agreed. Generally this is the best rule of thumb to follow:

If a game is still being released or re-released commercially, you'll probably never get the rights or permission to make a fan based title off of that IP. The reason? Because the company is still investing and promoting their own version. These companies spend millions to develop and market their IPs. So they want to control how and what is created or released concerning their IP. They own it, not you.

You have much better chances with a project that the company hasn't released or re-released any content for a very long time.

And with that, I've decided to close this thread and let the OP either drop the project completely, or tweak it so it doesn't infringe on id's IP. Of course if you do contact them, and do get written approval for this project- please let me know. I'll be happy to green light you then!

Thanks,

nathan

[Edited by - nsmadsen on October 17, 2008 7:38:21 AM]