Ok felisandra, and everybody else at gamedev, I''m finally getting to point in which everyone is trying to tell me, BUCKLE DOWN, and stop posting how to do this or that, and try to do the resource upon yourself. Well I''ve to decided to turn over a new leaf, and stop trying to get everyone to deliver me stuff first class on a silver plate. In other words I''m trying to get everyone to tell me stuff rather than me to go do the researching myself. And I no everyone is sick of it, so this is why I have a confession to make: I AM A NEWBIE AT PROGRAMMING AND I DON''T KNOW WHERE TO START! Well I do know where to start because I got this book on Teach Y ourself C++ in 21 days. And I skimmed through the book, and notice that its teaching me how to print to the screen, and I don''t think I need to know this in order to create my own Windows Applications. But, I extremely know that I don''t want to jump right into Windows Programming/DirectX with C++ because it would be too complicated for a newbie like me. So what I''m trying to say is after I finish my Teach Yourelf C++ in 21 days (THE BASICS) book, what book, tutorial, or what do I need to know before I can go into Windows Programming/DirectX with C++? Even though it is going to be challenging, I am THIS TIME willing to make the effort. And THIS TIME I''m REALLY sorry with all the trouble I caused here, I am going to make sure that it won''t happen again from this day forward because I don''t want to be BANNED from here. So please help me because I finally see the light and I am willing to make the effort.

Okay, well, the first thing you do need to do is carefully go through your 21 days book and do all the examples. Even if you think that printing to the screen isn''t important, I''m going to tell you it is. I think it''s safe to say that every person here who is a programmer at some point had to learn that part.

You might not understand why certain things are important to the big picture, but you have to realize that programming is a matter of building up little things one step at a time until you can do a randomizer function for what you need it to do without even thinking about it... you learned from making silly "randomly roll the dice and print it" programs way back when. Even if you are writing something that has nothing whatsoever to do with your eventual goal, it''s important to realize that if nothing else you are practicing the programming concepts and thinking that will serve you well on anything you try to write.

So, work through the entire book, then see if you can write your own text RPG. I know that seems a long way from where you want to be, but it will teach you how to use strings, how to interact with a player, some of the structures you''ll need for future games, input concepts, and, in general, is a good way to practice coding without having to deal with technicalities like trying to make a proper backbuffer in DDraw.

Once you can do the text RPG, which is basically the simplest form of a computer game, you will be ready to start building on your basic programming and game construction knowledge, and start learning the more difficult concepts such as using graphics and sound.

-fel

Once you''ve got the basics nailed, if you want to do dx there''s simply no comparison Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus is one of the best books you can get. It covers most of whatever you need to do windows games and does 2d directx, sound, music generated on the fly, ai, physics, etc. You''ll appreciate the lessons in coding he teaches even if you switch to opengl later.

Printing to the screen is one of the most valuable things to know how to do. I could never get accomplish any type of programming without being able to do this.

Would you try engineering a car without actually seeing the results as your building it? Printing to the screen is how you see what your program is doing while you are engineering your program.

A suggestion from another programming newb. I have the same book you''re using. Once you get an example to work the way it''s supposed to, go back into the code and modify it a little just to see the effect it''ll have on the program. For instance one of the examples is making a window and printing text to certain coordinates. After you get that to work go back and play around with it. Try to get it to display different messages in different places change the coordinates, etc. You''ll learn real quick some of what the language is capable of.

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Original post by gph-gw

Once you''ve got the basics nailed, if you want to do dx there''s simply no comparison Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus is one of the best books you can get. It covers most of whatever you need to do windows games and does 2d directx, sound, music generated on the fly, ai, physics, etc. You''ll appreciate the lessons in coding he teaches even if you switch to opengl later.

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I beg to differ. I found that LaMothe''s methods were often rather simplistic and restrictive. For example, he uses DirectX to create a DOS-like "virtual machine", perhaps not the most efficient way of programming Windows games. He also dismisses MFC right off the bat, whereas some programmers may find they prefer C++ and MFC to C and Win32, even for games.

I owned and learned a lot from Teach Yourself Game Programming in 21 Days , also by LaMothe. Skimming through Gurus I had constant sensations of deja-vu - even down to the example programs.

Furthermore, programming - especially game programming - is a highly rigorous discipline, and learning programming with game programming is a bad idea. There are dozens of habits that I had to unlearn when I started programming for a living. I''ve heard stories of young programmers whose style is totally bent after being introduced to "Carmack-C" too early.

Take your time, Rodney. There''ll always be a market for entertainment, and you can always catch up with the state-of-the-art-technologies. I''ve been away from (hobbyist) game programming for about four years (doing academic and professional programming instead), and I''ve been able to become conversant with most technologies fairly rapidly. And if your idea is hot, it''s hot.

Note: These are my personal opinions, not canonical statements. Feel free to disagree, oppose, support or contradict them. Ultimately, we all learn more through open debate (a hard learned lesson).

I am an expierienced C programmer and I consider myself relatively good (though I could be much better).

Right now, my current game project is using C++ and I don''t know it very well. I am reading the same book you are. I am going chapter by chapter, typing in every sample and doing every exercise even though many of the concepts are familiar to me and they don''t directly relate to games.

Believe me, those short 60 line programs are the building blocks for pretty much everything you''ll need, and you''ll be very glad that you took the time to go through it carefully.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster

I beg to differ. I found that LaMothe''s methods were often rather simplistic and restrictive. For example, he uses DirectX to create a DOS-like "virtual machine", perhaps not the most efficient way of programming Windows games. He also dismisses MFC right off the bat, whereas some programmers may find they prefer C++ and MFC to C and Win32, even for games.

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Yes, some people do prefer MFC to Win32, but I certainly don''t . I have no preference over C or C++ (my last project was C, my current one is C++). Win32 is also more like XLib (They differ a lot, but it''s still a whole lot closer than MFC), which makes porting an easier task.

[Resist Windows XP''s Invasive Production Activation Technology!]

i also have to agree with the statment that learning to put text on the sceer in important. I developed a map format for my bomberman type game, maps can be any size up to 32x32 and before i tries to implemet that in my graphics engine i figured out how to do it with just text. once i had the text maps editable (a text map editor sucks too) i droped it into my graphics engine and wham, no problems.

Text is great for setting up pieces of code and testing them, that way when it doesn''t work in game, you know it''s not the actual routine but the graphics code (saves you a ton of time.)

anyway good luck getting started, and may i recomend when ever you get to graphics you make a basic tetris game, they are easy and fun to make.

good luck!


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Don''t take life too seriously, you''''ll never get out of it alive. -Bugs Bunny

Boy am I glad to hear of the good news!

So what everyone is saying is that it would be to my advantage that I slowly go and work through the examples in my Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days book. And after I finish this book and have the basics nailed down in which the above book will teach me, there is nothing stopping me from learning Windows/Windows Game/Directx/Opengl/2D/3D programming.

And I know that one good book for the above would be Tricks of Windows Game Programming Gurus or something like that. But does anybody know of any free tutorials, ebooks, or other books that I could download, or buy that would consist of the following: Creating Windows Applications, Windows Game Programming with C++, DirectX Programming, & Opengl Programming. And if you do, then where can I get them from?

And will someone P..L..E..A..S..E.. tell me where I can get some information on what virtual machines like Shockmachine consist of. Even though I no where near ready for this, I would like to keep it for reference when I''m TRULY ready for it.

Now the few questions that will help me get started on my journey to learning C++:

Q1: Do I REALLY (Avantagous or not) have to read and work through Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days in order to be able to start learning Windows-Windows Game Programming with C++ -DirectX-Opengl-2D-and 3D programming? Yes or No

Q2: After I finish that book, will I know the basics?

Q3: And If I will know the basics, can I go straight into the above different types of programming.

Thanks for the advice & help!