Starting Salaries for Big CS Companies

First and foremost: Salaries are whatever you negotiate.

You bring yourself and your evidence that you can do the job, and put it on the negotiation table. Then you get to haggle. There are many books on the subject. I've seen skilled negotiators get as much as 50% more than their less-skilled counterparts, even though they are hired for the same job working as equal peers. (In that case, it was roughly a $25,000/year difference.)



Next major issue: Negotiation ranges are based on location. A salary in an expensive place will be higher than an inexpensive place.

Big companies have many different sites around the globe. Consider Google. There will be a big difference in pay between their location at Mountain View CA (downtown Silicon Valley) where the cost of living is high, vs their Boulder Colorado or Council Bluffs Iowa locations where cost of living is much lower.


Search the various job hunting sites for similar businesses in that same city. Some of the postings will specify an approximate salary. Use that as your guideline.

The poster above is basically right. I was in Jacksonville, Florida when I negotiated my first programming job, after I dropped out of school, and I came in at $76,000. Within a couple years I was making $125,000. If you want a rough figure for how much that is in the valley, like working for Google, just double it.

I stopped doing that... I figured out that salary isn't everything.

Google salaries for < 1 year of experience

You can probably use that site to find the others you were looking for too.

So as far as negotiation goes, I hear that many of these companies have a flat rate starting salary. Can I negotiate no matter what for a significant difference in money? Also what if the contact is a HR person? Are they allowed to make these decisions? How do I get through them to hiring managers?

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Original post by Axiverse So as far as negotiation goes, I hear that many of these companies have a flat rate starting salary. Can I negotiate no matter what for a significant difference in money? Also what if the contact is a HR person? Are they allowed to make these decisions? How do I get through them to hiring managers?

So, you've got a college degree...

What would you consider to set you apart from other 100,000 recent graduates who also applied for the same job? For example, Google receives 20,000 resumes per week.

This is an honest question you'll need to honestly clear with yourself before even thinking about negotiating starting salary.

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Original post by Axiverse So as far as negotiation goes, I hear that many of these companies have a flat rate starting salary. Can I negotiate no matter what for a significant difference in money? Also what if the contact is a HR person? Are they allowed to make these decisions? How do I get through them to hiring managers?

Most have salary ranges, not a single number. An hourly position will have a smaller negotiation range, but it is still subject to negotiation.

Employers prefer to pay on the low end of the range. That is what they will advertise (if they mention a number) and what they will initially offer.

It is your responsibility to put something on the negotiation table that says you are worth more.

There are many books about salary negotiation. Visit your library.

I'm not going to say what I earn (after 3 years of working so far), but, is there anyone from Europe who sees these American figures, like $76000 a year, and thinks like "WOW, how is that possible, we earn NOTHING here in Europe!". And that's a nothing even before 50 of it is removed for social security.

Or am I just really really bad at negotiating?

How does it come that all these companies are outsourcing to other countries if apparently even Flanders, with a so called service-oriented economy and high education rate, is a low wage country compared to the US.

[Edited by - Lode on January 27, 2010 7:01:45 PM]

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Original post by Lode I'm not going to say what I earn, but, is there anyone from Europe who sees these American figures, like $76000 a year, and thinks like "WOW, how is that possible, we earn NOTHING here in Europe!".

The difference in salary are taxes we pay so that our governments keep our cucumbers straight and bananas curved.

I agree, it's pretty scary stuff. I'm from belgium and roughly 40% of my salary goes into taxes. And my base salary (before the taxes cut it in half) is already much lower than the US figures..

Y.

I honestly have no idea what the market is like Europe, but I do know that my salary wasn't something I got by sending in my resume and playing by the rules. In my higher paying job, I was literally making 3 times as much as my peers. Part of that is that I negotiated well. Part of that is because I am worth it.

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Original post by Ysaneya I agree, it's pretty scary stuff. I'm from belgium and roughly 40% of my salary goes into taxes. And my base salary (before the taxes cut it in half) is already much lower than the US figures.

Many (most? all?) of the salary web sites have numbers that are inflated.

Maybe they do it on purpose so people will buy the full reports to show to their boss. Maybe the people they poll tend to be more senior individuals and managers rather than the rank-and-file. Maybe it accidental because people feel the need to inflate numbers. Maybe it is a little bit of all of them.


If you want accurate numbers, don't look on those sites.


Governments and public service agencies have publicly viewable salary tables that are accurate. It isn't just national and local civil service jobs, but also many military jobs, university public jobs, school districts, and even public utilities work.

You know those tables are actually what the people make, and you know they have many employees so it represents a share of the actual job market. Look at exactly the skill set and find a pay grade, then look up the pay for that level.

I went to Merrill Lynch out of undergrad, and got Salary+Bonus of around 75,000 my first year. Every recruit got the same exact pay.

I know that was also one of the higher paying jobs people could get... I mean, I know people who graduate with CS degrees and started at 35k, or 50k... so the range can really vary.

From what i've heard, Google/Microsoft start around 75 just for salary.. not sure how accurate that is.

Alright. I think I should offer what I do know. I'm only familiar with the rates at Microsoft, which is around 82k starting with a BS degree. It also is pretty common to get a 20-30k year end bonus making the total starting salary 90-110k. I'm actually talking to Amazon right now and I wanted to get a grasp of the actual pay rates at Google, Apple, etc.

Also as a side note for those of you that are curious, internship salaries at Microsoft are equivalent to a rate of 60k/year. And that was a few years ago.

in Europe (yes its a collection of countries so this is a general view) wages between the various industries vary a lot less than they do in the US, here in NZ we're more similar to the US.

Also a very important point when talking about wages is to use the median value and NOT the average values

If youre wanting a job that pays a guaranteed high wage(*), become a doctor esp a specialist. hell even here in poorly paid NZ 1st year locums get about US $100/hr

(*)though perhaps to late to change your degree :)

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Original post by zedz If youre wanting a job that pays a guaranteed high wage(*), become a doctor esp a specialist. hell even here in poorly paid NZ 1st year locums get about US $100/hr

Being a doctor doesn't even remotely guarantee a high wage, unless one moves into a few hotspots that have need for that specialty, can afford to support it (gear costs a lot) and patients that can afford treatment.

You might be surprised that for many doctors (globally speaking in absolute numbers), $100 is weekly income. Even for some in EU.

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Original post by Lode I'm not going to say what I earn (after 3 years of working so far), but, is there anyone from Europe who sees these American figures, like $76000 a year, and thinks like "WOW, how is that possible, we earn NOTHING here in Europe!". And that's a nothing even before 50 of it is removed for social security.

I've not been to Europe or the US, but yes, $76,000 would be considered ridiculous for a junior or mid-level worker here in Australia. I was extremely surprised when I saw graduates getting $55,000 at my last corporate job!
I imagine when looking at income, you've seriously got to consider the cost of living in those places though. From what I gather, living in the US requires a lot more money than other countries. Some choice quotes on the subject:

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a greater percentage of total income in the nation (GDP) is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor. Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.

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There, in EU, the old continent, quality of life is often measured by how much you can do without the need for a car, by how many choices you have around the corner, and probably by how less from your salary you have to spend (buying a car perhaps, or two, or three?) to get basic things like commuting to work or getting to the theatre done. Interestingly, here, in US, it’s quite the opposite, as in "no car(s)" pretty much means "you have no life". And the (disturbing) thing is that there is indeed a lot of truth in that - you really can’t do much without a car here!

I don't earn that much, but I have no need for a car, I can walk to work, I can walk to a fresh-produce market for cheap food, I didn't pay for my university degree (I pay for it now by paying extra tax), I have free/subsidised health-care (no need for much insurance, if any), I get 4 weeks a year paid holiday time and 2 weeks paid sick leave, if I lose a job then I can get unemployment benefits for as long as I need them, etc... In other words, I don't need as much money in the bank as a US worker does to be safe/secure.

>>You might be surprised that for many doctors (globally speaking in absolute numbers), $100 is weekly income. Even for some in EU.

Hmmm its obvious that the OP was talking about the richer western countries (not sudan or bulgaria etc i've no doubt doctors in 2nd or 3rd world countries earn bugger all, hell street sweepers in the frst world prolly earn more than them)

>>I've not been to Europe or the US, but yes, $76,000 would be considered ridiculous for a junior or mid-level worker here in Australia.

unless your work was as a qualified doctor in australia.
heres a link to the locum rates
http://www.locumsprn.com/locum-jobs-in-australia/
"RMO (Junior) Positions
There is high demand throughout Australia for junior doctors for emergency (ED) from PGY2+ (two years+ post grad). Previous ED experience is not essential for some of these positions. Vacancies are usually for 3+ months and pay $70 - 80 per hour with $80-100+ for short-term"

now there are other industries where u can easily earn more (investment banking, oil, law, pornstar) but not everyone within these industries achieves these rates

One more note from europe: I've once had the "chance" to earn 1500 EUR gross (2095 USD), which I surely denied; of course that's not really representative.

My guess is that here in germany, 2100-2500 EUR (2933-3492 USD) is common for non-university beginners. Univ-people (still guessing) get something above 3000 EUR.

edit: all salaries mentioned are per month


edit: Is it correct that in the US, holidays of a week are the rule? Here, it is more like 20 (lawful minimum for adult workers) to 31 days.

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Original post by phresnel edit: Is it correct that in the US, holidays of a week are the rule? Here, it is more like 20 (lawful minimum for adult workers) to 31 days.

I would say that 2000 hours is a standard work year here in the US, which comes out to about 2 weeks vacation, but I don't think this is required. My company also has a PTO policy where we earn 8 hours of paid vacation for every pay period, which is roughly 2 weeks, but that doesn't happen everywhere.