Reserved and gentlemanly UK elections thread (tea and crumpets inside)

Quote:

Original post by OrangyTang What say you, chaps?

Tea and crumpets look gross.

On a related note, you're right. The US media doesn't cover UK politics much at all. It sound absolutely riveting though. A real nail biter.

I'm hoping to see a slim Conservative majority, myself. Better than a hung Parliament and people voting for Lib Dem simply because of "Cleggmania" and people who still have irrational hangups about Thatcher; perfect recipe to weasel Gordon Brown back in for five more years of bankruptcy, Big Brother, zero civil liberties, expenses fiddling etc. usw.

People spread this muck about the Tories but most of it is related to the early Thatcher years when the country was totally broke after yet another Labour recession. 30 years ago, for fuck's sake - things weren't even half as bad as they are now.

It's so shallow and narrow minded. The Tories have moved on, give them a chance.

Apparently one of the C-SPAN channels in the US is having dedicated coverage of the election later on tonight.

Skip the tea but yes to the crumpets.

Personally I would like the Liberal Democrats to get into power, mainly because no the Tories have not changed, they may have a flashy expensive advertising campaign to sell this but where did they get this money? From big corporations who know that if the Tories get into power they will be given tax breaks, etc.

While Labour hasn't been fantastic as someone said on First Time Voters question time, Gordon Brown was elected captain of a sinking ship, there are some major things Labour has done successfully since the last time the conservatives were in power such as the minimum wage, reducing the wait time of patients. While no I don't support labour personally I have nothing but contempt for the "For the Rich" attitude the conservatives seem to have.

The downside to the election is due to the way it works chances are even if Liberal Democrats were to have the majority Labour would still somehow be in power I believe.

Which is absolutely ludicrous.

"Tea and crumpets look gross."


You have to imagine that the crumpets are sort of cakey, served hot and the point of the holes is that the butter soaks into the cakeiness.

This election is pretty uninspiring. Looks more like a triplet of whining clones rather than a clash of ideas and ideals. All of them peddle 'change' (how original), but really, it will be pretty much 'steady as she goes' whoever you choose, recession and all. Same old same old... Lukewarm politics, soft as jelly those three. The tabloid press is a fun read though. Rupert Murdoch's drone army in full alert!

Would be funny seeing the Lib Dems getting to n.10, and starting to wonder about how to actually run a country.

Quote:

Original post by Sirisian Tea and crumpets look gross.

You sir, have no taste, and I thumb my nose at you.

Meanwhile we've got pre-analysis analysis in the form of this poll of polls. Which generally suggests that polls are fairly accurate but by no means able to conclusively state the outcome ahead of time. So not particularly surprising there then. :)

Quote:

Original post by OrangyTang Quote: Original post by Sirisian Tea and crumpets look gross. You sir, have no taste, and I thumb my nose at you. Meanwhile we've got pre-analysis analysis in the form of this poll of polls. Which generally suggests that polls are fairly accurate but by no means able to conclusively state the outcome ahead of time. So not particularly surprising there then. :)

I tend to look at the polls, but taking them as gospel is the wrong thing to do.

There were something like 35% undecided before today and most of them will likely have voted by now, or perhaps will do so on the way home from work etc. It's anyone's guess what these people eventually decided, or if they even decided at all - some people literally turn up at the polling station, get their ballot paper and spent 30s in the booth swithering before putting their X down as opposed to researching in advance.

That said, the Tories have been ahead in the polls for quite some time now, with a ten point lead at one stage (which they seem to have pissed away, regrettably).

Cameron's the man for No. 10, if you ask me. Brown has had it; he's lost the plot, has no regard for the electorate and has tarnished the Labour Party's reputation forever. I would actually have considered voting Labour if he had quit and a new and totally different leader attempted to take the party in a new direction, despite all their previous problems. A new leader and a genuine pledge to backpedal and improve might just have reeled me in.

Lib Dems have an overinflated view of how they're doing, and people are voting for them to keep the Tories out (stupid, stupid, stupid - this leads to a hung Parliament and more Labour while the bond markets crash because the speculators have shat themselves, and all this talk of "tactical voting" is highly irresponsible if you ask me) and then you have the joke novelty parties like BNP who may even be on the brink of collapse because this new scandal of scuffling with the Asian kids, and all these issues with their webmaster, have sent the party shuddering to its very core by the sounds of it.

Quote:

Original post by ukdeveloper The Tories have moved on, give them a chance.

I'll believe it when I see it; I remember the feeling for the 80s and early 90s, and for 'the average working man' having them in power is not, and will not, be a good thing.

As a leader Cameron is another Blair; lots of flash but I'm not seeing any substance.

The Independent had an intresting article about a council area which Cameron has held up as a model for how they should do things.

That model has included closing down homeless shelters, closing down youth centres (including one gifted to the area to trying and sell it) and leveling charges at the old and the sick.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Labour are prefect but if anyone thinks the Conservatives will sweap into power and make life better for the working man.. well, they are sorely mistaken.

Personally, I don't think ANY of the parties deserve my support, and as there is no way to express this which counts I won't be voting. I believe the whole system needs to be scrapped and we need to rethink everything based on the age we live in now and the realities of it.

???

If I may, I like how the Lib Dems have demonstrated the serious problems with a "first past the post" electoral system. Canada has a similar problem - our minority government was originally elected on something like 33% of the vote and remains several years later despite its general (non-Ipsos) approval rating never really breaking that.

The combination of district gerrymandering and the lack of proportional representation is starting to really wear me out on traditional electoral systems. Of course the guys who are winning as a result are not going to be campaigning on fixing it.

Look. I'm on a diet here. Will people PLEASE for the love of anything you hold holy, PLEASE STOP POSTING PICTURES OF FOOD!!!

Quote:

Original post by phantom I'll believe it when I see it; I remember the feeling for the 80s and early 90s, and for 'the average working man' having them in power is not, and will not, be a good thing.

Yes, the Poll Tax was a disaster and Mrs. Thatcher lost her influence and got booted out in favour of John Major. Let's not forget that the early 1980s recession was due to the horrible state Labour left the country in - the UK was within 45 minutes of total bankruptcy in 1976 until the IMF saved us, then there was the Winter of Discontent and a recession. It was a desperate situation which required desperate measures, and Thatcher brought those.

Quote:

As a leader Cameron is another Blair;

Yes, people have said that. However, can they prove it? Cameron hasn't been in office yet so who knows how he'll do things?

Quote:

lots of flash but I'm not seeing any substance.

Don't tell the Labourites that; they think Blair was wonderful (which he was in comparison to Crash Gordon)

Quote:

The Independent had an intresting article about a council area which Cameron has held up as a model for how they should do things... That model has included closing down homeless shelters, closing down youth centres (including one gifted to the area to trying and sell it) and leveling charges at the old and the sick.

This is not representative of the UK as a whole; this is one Conservative council which I agree appears to have done things the wrong way entirely and I disapprove. I wouldn't tar all of the councils with the same brush; Edinburgh Pentland (my old constituency before it got merged in 2004) was Tory run and everything was great, but there will always be anomalies in the system.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Labour are prefect but if anyone thinks the Conservatives will sweap into power and make life better for the working man.. well, they are sorely mistaken.

Thatcher crushed the Unions and, I think, quite rightly. They were throwing a hissy fit and brought the country to its knees without any form of justification or remorse - Unions are there to support the workers, not to flick switches and crash the economy into a wall.

Quote:

Personally, I don't think ANY of the parties deserve my support, and as there is no way to express this which counts I won't be voting. I believe the whole system needs to be scrapped and we need to rethink everything based on the age we live in now and the realities of it.

Yeah, I'm not exactly enamoured with the whole business of the party coming second or last getting to keep power in the event of a hung Parliament. In my view, the party with the most seats should form a Government, end of story. The House of Commons/Lords are relics that don't fit the 21st century, or even the 20th either.

Quote:

Original post by ukdeveloper Quote: The Independent had an intresting article about a council area which Cameron has held up as a model for how they should do things... That model has included closing down homeless shelters, closing down youth centres (including one gifted to the area to trying and sell it) and leveling charges at the old and the sick. This is not representative of the UK as a whole; this is one Conservative council which I agree appears to have done things the wrong way entirely and I disapprove. I wouldn't tar all of the councils with the same brush; Edinburgh Pentland (my old constituency before it got merged in 2004) was Tory run and everything was great, but there will always be anomalies in the system.

And I'd say that as well, if Cameron hadn't praised this area as the way forward for his party..

Quote:

Thatcher crushed the Unions and, I think, quite rightly. They were throwing a hissy fit and brought the country to its knees without any form of justification or remorse - Unions are there to support the workers, not to flick switches and crash the economy into a wall.

Agreed, but I'm not talking about the unions, I'm talking about every day life for people in general.

In my example, for most of my life despite both my parents working what 'luxuries' we had were generally second hand or rented (in the case of TVs or video recorders) and food was very tight at times. This defintely picked up in the Labour years.

I never knew a crumpet was an english muffin. If you're in england, shouldn't you just be calling them muffins?

Quote:

Original post by ChurchSkiz I never knew a crumpet was an english muffin. If you're in england, shouldn't you just be calling them muffins?

Nope, in the UK a "muffin" is one of these:



"English muffin" isn't a term used here, they're "crumpets".

Been following the campaign a bit on Andrew Sullivan's blog. Really enjoyed bigot-gate.

I have no bib and I must drool!

Quote:

Original post by Katie "Tea and crumpets look gross." You have to imagine that the crumpets are sort of cakey, served hot and the point of the holes is that the butter soaks into the cakeiness.

I don't think those crumpets looked gross, just that yellow stuff sitting on top of them. Is that supposed to be butter?

Quote:

Original post by ukdeveloper Apparently one of the C-SPAN channels in the US is having dedicated coverage of the election later on tonight.

C-SPAN covers Prime Minister's Questions, so that wouldn't surprise me. What would surprise me is if they covered it on their two primary channels given that Congress is in session and those channels are dedicated to covering Congress when it is in session. They might show it on C-SPAN 3, but that channel isn't part of the basic cable package. At any rate, since the UK is 8 hours ahead of the US - five ahead of the East Coast - my guess is that the polls there are closing right about now (unless they stay open later than 8 pm) and the returns should come in within an hour or so. CNN might cover the elections, since their primary news shows run in the afternoon here.

As for US coverage of the UK elections. The style of the debate got some attention but not the substance of the debate. The performance of Nick Clegg at the debate also got some attention. Gordon Brown got some coverage for slagging that old woman when he thought his mic was off.

It seems to me that the UK wants Labour policies but not Brown. In which case a hung parliament would be the best outcome. Brown would have to step down for losing. If no government can be formed and new elections are called, then maybe Labour, with new leadership, can make a comeback. If Labour suffers a clear defeat then maybe the UK does not want Labour policies. Even if the defeat isn't clear, I would expect to hear a lot of spin asserting that the UK public doesn't want Labour policies. It's too easy to spin dislike for a person (Brown) as dislike for policy.

On an unrelated note, props to Tottenham for taking down Man City yesterday. Good luck in next years Champions League competition!

Quote:

Original post by LessBread It seems to me that the UK wants Labour policies but not Brown.

The thing is that there's a serious disconnect between the stated Labour policies and their actual behaviour. Theoretically they're mostly socialist, in favour of well funded education, national health service, welfare and policing, and aren't afraid to have (relatively) high taxes to fund those. IMHO these are all things that resonate well with the general public.

However their track record has been pretty bad - in particular their constant passing of knee-jerk legislation and walking all over civil liberties, combined with a long and unpopular war means that even if people agree with their basic philosophy they're going to vote for "the other guy" regardless.

Sadly when I went shopping yesterday they were actually all out of crumpets (!) so instead I've had to settle for (bread) muffins.