Quote: Original post by Mithrandir

Quote: Original post by tstrimp
Wow, I never knew that unborn fetuses started the invasion of Iraq and exonerated death row inmates. Clearly they are a threat and we should probably abort them all, just to be safe.

Stop being an idiot. The point of my post was that people who are the most vocally pro-life, are also highly in favor of unjust wars like the Iraq war, which destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives.

Ergo, they only care about life before people are born; not after.


Every single time I challenge a "pro-lifer" on their war stance, they justify it by saying they're all terrorists and muslims, and therefore they deserve to die. I guess you could call that viewpoint Pro-"Life", but to act all high and mighty and pretend that abortion is murder, whereas actual murder is not, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

What about the people who claim to respect all life and living things except for humans? Don't eat cows or even eggs, don't make pillows out of feathers or balls out of leather, but aborting a late-term fetus is no problem.

I've seen the same people decrying the inhumanity of eating a poor, unborn calf, rally for the right for women to dispose of unborn humans. Would they call it a travesty if we proposed to eat the leftovers of Planned Parenthood? I think there's some hypocrisy on both sides...

Bottom line: Being against killing unborn babies but for the death of criminals and enemies of the state is not any worse than being against the killing of soldiers for political purposes but being ok with the termination of an unborn fetus. To say one is hypocritical and the other is not is naive.

Quote: Original post by LessBread
Just to make a note of it, I wasn't comparing abortion to capital punishment any more than I was comparing it to health and safety regulations. My point was that if you're going to call yourself "pro-life" then you ought to pursue agendas that support all life and not just the life of the unborn.

Why should they? The majority of the pro-life movement in the US is concerned with elective abortions. That is their cause. It's like criticizing PETA for not being concerned about how cruel cats can be to a mouse that they play with. The PETA movement isn't concerned about the cruel treatment of animals in general, they are concerned about the cruel treatment of animals by humans. They have a specific focus, and a single message, that is going to be much more powerful than the group who just wants bad things to stop happening.

Quote:
Here's some news on the abstinence only education front:

Quote:
...
According to the Centers for Disease Control, Mississippi’s teen birth rate is 66 per thousand teenagers, the highest in the nation. The national average is 42.

Experts here say many factors contribute to the state’s high birth rate, including poverty, culture and a one-dimensional sex-education program in schools.

I believe the religious right's obsession with keeping our children ignorant is doing a lot of harm to this country. They can keep pretending that eliminating sex education will keep teens from having sex, but it has no basis in reality, it just encourages kids to have unsafe sex.

Quote: Original post by tstrimp

Quote: Original post by Mithrandir
Every single time I challenge a "pro-lifer" on their war stance, they justify it by saying they're all terrorists and muslims, and therefore they deserve to die. I guess you could call that viewpoint Pro-"Life", but to act all high and mighty and pretend that abortion is murder, whereas actual murder is not, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

I never knew you had talked to a few of them, and they told you that's how it was. Clearly then you're an expert on the beliefs of pro-life supporters and saying that pro-lifers only care about the unborn is in no way as ignorant as the extensive list of "pro-lifers" you have interviewed who view all muslims as terrorists who should be killed.

...

I'm done talking with you. Here's a hint for being taken seriously next time, in case you ever decide to care: try to make a cohesive point once in a while, instead of mindlessly babbling and changing the topic.

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz

Quote: Original post by Mithrandir

Quote: Original post by tstrimp
Wow, I never knew that unborn fetuses started the invasion of Iraq and exonerated death row inmates. Clearly they are a threat and we should probably abort them all, just to be safe.

Stop being an idiot. The point of my post was that people who are the most vocally pro-life, are also highly in favor of unjust wars like the Iraq war, which destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives.

Ergo, they only care about life before people are born; not after.


Every single time I challenge a "pro-lifer" on their war stance, they justify it by saying they're all terrorists and muslims, and therefore they deserve to die. I guess you could call that viewpoint Pro-"Life", but to act all high and mighty and pretend that abortion is murder, whereas actual murder is not, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

What about the people who claim to respect all life and living things except for humans? Don't eat cows or even eggs, don't make pillows out of feathers or balls out of leather, but aborting a late-term fetus is no problem.

I've seen the same people decrying the inhumanity of eating a poor, unborn calf, rally for the right for women to dispose of unborn humans. Would they call it a travesty if we proposed to eat the leftovers of Planned Parenthood? I think there's some hypocrisy on both sides...

Bottom line: Being against killing unborn babies but for the death of criminals and enemies of the state is not any worse than being against the killing of soldiers for political purposes but being ok with the termination of an unborn fetus. To say one is hypocritical and the other is not is naive.

Vegans are retarded. I've said that for many many years. Happy?

Quote: Original post by Mithrandir

Quote: Original post by tstrimp

Quote: Original post by Mithrandir
Every single time I challenge a "pro-lifer" on their war stance, they justify it by saying they're all terrorists and muslims, and therefore they deserve to die. I guess you could call that viewpoint Pro-"Life", but to act all high and mighty and pretend that abortion is murder, whereas actual murder is not, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

I never knew you had talked to a few of them, and they told you that's how it was. Clearly then you're an expert on the beliefs of pro-life supporters and saying that pro-lifers only care about the unborn is in no way as ignorant as the extensive list of "pro-lifers" you have interviewed who view all muslims as terrorists who should be killed.

...

I'm done talking with you. Here's a hint for being taken seriously next time, in case you ever decide to care: try to make a cohesive point once in a while, instead of mindlessly babbling and changing the topic.

It's not my fault you can't support your viewpoint without straw-men. My point was that your point was ignorant. All pro-life supporters are hypocrites because some you have talked to equate all Muslims as terrorists? You're argument is somehow better than theirs? You're both passing judgement over a huge group because of the actions of a few.

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz
Bottom line: Being against killing unborn babies but for the death of criminals and enemies of the state is not any worse than being against the killing of soldiers for political purposes but being ok with the termination of an unborn fetus. To say one is hypocritical and the other is not is naive.

The inconsistency is especially useful when you want to execute women who terminate their pregnancies...

Quote: Original post by tstrimp

Quote: Original post by LessBread
Just to make a note of it, I wasn't comparing abortion to capital punishment any more than I was comparing it to health and safety regulations. My point was that if you're going to call yourself "pro-life" then you ought to pursue agendas that support all life and not just the life of the unborn.

Why should they? The majority of the pro-life movement in the US is concerned with elective abortions. That is their cause. It's like criticizing PETA for not being concerned about how cruel cats can be to a mouse that they play with. The PETA movement isn't concerned about the cruel treatment of animals in general, they are concerned about the cruel treatment of animals by humans. They have a specific focus, and a single message, that is going to be much more powerful than the group who just wants bad things to stop happening.

Why should they? Because they claim to be pro-life not anti-abortion. If they want to focus on elective abortions, that's fine, but they shouldn't pretend that they're driven by a concern for life, because that's baloney.

Quote:
I believe the religious right's obsession with keeping our children ignorant is doing a lot of harm to this country. They can keep pretending that eliminating sex education will keep teens from having sex, but it has no basis in reality, it just encourages kids to have unsafe sex.

I wouldn't say that it encourages kids to have unsafe sex. I think hormones do that. I would say that it results in teens having unsafe sex because they aren't aware of any other way of having sex. Beyond that, I think the religious right is obsessed with keeping everyone ignorant...

Quote: Original post by LessBread

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz
Bottom line: Being against killing unborn babies but for the death of criminals and enemies of the state is not any worse than being against the killing of soldiers for political purposes but being ok with the termination of an unborn fetus. To say one is hypocritical and the other is not is naive.

The inconsistency is especially useful when you want to execute women who terminate their pregnancies...

Or kill people during an anti-war rally....

Quote: Original post by LessBread

Quote: Original post by tstrimp

Quote: Original post by LessBread
Just to make a note of it, I wasn't comparing abortion to capital punishment any more than I was comparing it to health and safety regulations. My point was that if you're going to call yourself "pro-life" then you ought to pursue agendas that support all life and not just the life of the unborn.

Why should they? The majority of the pro-life movement in the US is concerned with elective abortions. That is their cause. It's like criticizing PETA for not being concerned about how cruel cats can be to a mouse that they play with. The PETA movement isn't concerned about the cruel treatment of animals in general, they are concerned about the cruel treatment of animals by humans. They have a specific focus, and a single message, that is going to be much more powerful than the group who just wants bad things to stop happening.

Why should they? Because they claim to be pro-life not anti-abortion. If they want to focus on elective abortions, that's fine, but they shouldn't pretend that they're driven by a concern for life, because that's baloney.

You're splitting hairs with the terms. Why do they claim to be pro-life and not anti-abortion? For the same reason the other people claim to be pro-choice and not pro-abortion. When talking about abortion, the usage of the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are very well known within the context of the conversation. Attempting to extrapolate beyond that is being dishonest. Unless when talking about abortion you think someone who is pro-choice is equally for the choice of what to have for breakfast as they are for whether or not women should have the choice to have an abortion.

Claiming that someone can't be pro-life because of a concern for life is baloney; that's just silly.

Quote: Original post by LessBread
Why should they? Because they claim to be pro-life not anti-abortion. If they want to focus on elective abortions, that's fine, but they shouldn't pretend that they're driven by a concern for life, because that's baloney.

By that standard, the pro-choice crowd should be supporting post-birth abortion? I see pro-life as simply a response to the term pro-choice. It does not indicate their platform is about anything other than abortion.