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Some new user's questions about the 'Help Wanted' section

Started by February 09, 2011 04:11 AM
27 comments, last by way2lazy2care 13 years, 9 months ago

I imagined I could get a team assembled and establish that we are all equally valuable to making a game. By the 'authority' I simply meant a high enough position in a gaming company where people will listen to what you say, not that I think I'm better than everyone.
Of course, my first choice would be to get a company to pick up my 'game', but that's just unrealistic. That's why I thought I could get a team of people here to help me.


By authority, I felt you mean that the evil industry won't let you make your dream game without their authority.

Work a bit with gamemaker, and you don't need 5 years to have something. And don't care about your art skills, any placeholder graphics will do. Just pay attention to legal issues, such as ripping off art from games...
But you MUST have something to show.

You have to understand, that making a full game is a lot of work (I mean a polished game, not the demo). And frankly, your role would be the easiest/smallest in it. And no one wants (and can afford) to work hardly on a game for free. Some can't even afford to work on their own games, because some has to make a living somehow.
To make a game requires skill or money - both is best.
To make a hobby game that actually get finished you need to attract a good team. As others have said you won't do that unless you can contribute something to the actual development process (beyond the dime and the dozen ideas it buys). That something needs to be one or both of the above. If you don't have millions of dollars you need a worthwhile skill. The team you want to recruit almost certainly started learning to develop because they had game ideas of their own - so they put in the effort to learn some useful skill in the hope of making a game. If you want them to make your game you will almost certainly need to match their effort by learning a useful development skill such as programming, art or at a minimum being a kick ass level designer (as in building great levels in one of the commercially available level editors).

The world is filled with "ideas guys" and the internet is littered with dead projects they started. They don't get finished for a million different reasons but the root of most of them in the lack of experience/skill of the person starting the project. People here know that so they want to join teams where everyone has made the same effort as them to learn something useful. Does this take time? Sure, but everyone else was willing to make the effort. If you aren't willing to make the same effort for your own idea no reason why anyone else would.
Dan Marchant - Business Development Consultant
www.obscure.co.uk
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Unfortunately, I do not think you would currently be successful recruiting a team in our (or other, similar) Help Wanted forum, for the following reasons:
  1. You don't contribute a technical skill to the team. A designer role can be viable in professional development, but generally isn't very well thought of in indie or hobbyist teams unless you can demonstrate a proven track record.
  2. Following on from #1, you do not have a proven track record. This is not always necessary, but is a big help with recruiting.
  3. You're not offering any guaranteed rewards to potential team-members. A profit share is only any good if the game is completed, and successful.
  4. You offer no concrete proof that your ideas are any better than those available elsewhere.

With those things in mind, I think there are things you can do to work towards improving your chances:
  1. You could learn a technical skill. Programming is the traditional choice, but art could also be seen as acceptable. This is a slow path and a lot of effort, but will make you much more self-sufficient and would allow you to get started on the project alone, bringing additional help on board along the way.
  2. You can and should write out your idea in detail. Research design documents, and write one up. Be detailed. Get feedback and improve things. Participate in discussions of game design; work with others to improve their ideas, and seek feedback on your own. Don't be paranoid and try to hide your idea: Why you should share your game designs. Don't suffer from Stupid Paranoia. The worthlessness of NDAs. NDAs are valuable in the professional world, but are likely to simply get in your way as an indie or hobbyist developer; successful people in the field generally agree that you should be open with your ideas. Have a design document that sounds fun right from the beginning, so that people will want to work on your game.
  3. Get some experience. Make simple games with Game Maker or similar packages, create board or card games, work on mod projects, get involved in other projects. Anything to show that your ideas really are good and that you're able to follow them through to implementation. The Help Wanted template has a "previous work" section, and being able to put something in that section is a big plus.
  4. You could try to raise some money to pay people something up front. People often don't expect much from indie or hobbyist projects, but being guaranteed they will get some compensation for their time will make your project much more attractive.
  5. Create, or have other talented people create things that illustrate your game idea. Playable prototypes are the best option, even if they have poor graphics and are put together in something like Game Maker. You could also create mock-up video or screen-shots as long as you're clear that they are mock-ups and not completed work. You could get some concept art to get people interested.

See also, Checklist to lead an online game project. Find and read articles from other successful developers, and learn the typical processes.


With some work, you absolutely can assemble a team and make your game -- it's all up to you! smile.gif

Hope that helps.

- Jason Astle-Adams

I feel like Sloper has covered this enough on his site but I'll paraphrase your options:

1. Get rich and pay people to work for you
2. Learn how to draw or program or both so you can work on the project yourself
3. Be a part of someone else's team who has programming and art talent and offer your services as a writer on THEIR game

There is a small chance that if you do #3 you MIGHT be able to work out some deal where if you finish someone else's game they will work on yours, but that is really unlikely.

Completing a game with option #1 or #2 is hard enough, finishing two games without paying people is really tough. Finishing a game without paying people while being in charge of all the direction of gameplay, story, concept, etc. is all but impossible. No one wants to work for free for YOUR dream or idea, everyone has their 2 cents on what will make the ultimate game.

As an example, as a programmer, I want to work on MY games. If I relinquish my control to work on someone else's project, I'm going to do it because I really need an artist and can't find one that's willing to draw for me. I'd never give up the ability to make my own game to help you when you can't provide any tangible benefits to the project outside of writing.

[quote name='GHMP' timestamp='1297226542' post='4771720']
2. Can people "internet rob" my ideas easily?
3. Would I need a copyright for protection?

2. Of course.
3. Even better: don't tell anybody without having them sign an NDA first.
[/quote]

On Number 2, if you were a programmer or someone who had the skills to make an ORPG (Isn't there a Unity MMORPG workshop going on right now?) and someone came up to you and said, "MAN I HAVE THIS GREAT IDEA. It's going to be an ORGP, but what makes it awesome is X!" You have already contributed pretty much everything worthwhile that you could be expected to contribute. It doesn't make sense to work with you unless you're doing something the programmer can't/won't want to do, and more likely than not he'll find something stupid about your game and redesign it with X and Y and since he can actually make it he'll already have an advantage over you.

There are tons of tools to make a game starting with little technical knowledge. All your posts say to me is that you want to get into game design, but you don't want to have to work or learn anything to do so.
Well if you want to make games, you should do all you can to make them. People don't say, "I want to play guitar, but it is too much hard work and talent." If you want to learn something you just have to try and get through it. Most people decided they wanted to design games and figured out they need to learn programming or 3d modeling and then you just put your time into doing it. The problem is your goal should be how do I make games, not "I want to make a sweet looking online rpg". You will never accomplish that without knowing anything and you wont be able to manage a team if you don't know whats going on. These online teams never work out so each person needs to be as skilled as possible.

NBA2K, Madden, Maneater, Killing Floor, Sims

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I think the replies are pretty unanimous. I hope they don't appear to the OP as bashing - be inspired. Many people have learned to program/do art/design levels etc. Go forth and learn/practice and your game may become a reality.
Dan Marchant - Business Development Consultant
www.obscure.co.uk
Thanks for all of the replies and time everyone has spent helping me.
And while I don't think I'm like way2lazy2care put me (in other words, a retarded kid), I guess it does make sense that my job will be easier. But I still don't think it's a walk in the park to write every detail about a game, just as it isn't to make the written details into usable resources.
Here are some of the questions I have asked, their answers, and the ones that I'm still looking for answers to:

Q: Will a 2D, pixel art demo help people get interested in the game? A: Possibly could give a feel for the game
Q: How many people will a team need to consist of to make a game like this? A: None yet.
Q: New question: In your opinion, which skill best fits a designer?: 3D art design, programming, or level design? A: None yet.
Q: Also, what is a sillhouette of what a level designer really does? A: None yet.
Q: Will people help me in the Help Wanted section? A: Not likely, unless I get another skill besides writing the GDD.

I might be able to play music, as I have a keyboard, but I have to learn how to record with it on the computer.
And I might not be able to write music even after that : / but I'll look into it.
Thanks for past and future answers and help!

[twitter]Casey_Hardman[/twitter]

Q: Will people help me in the Help Wanted section? A: nothing. just look at how many posts there are. And again they all fail. For you it will 100% fail, because you have to take it in steps. Your goal right now needs to be knowledge, not actually making the game. Grab UDK and try making levels. Your only going to find amateur people for your team, it just doesn't work out good. I tried it once and its just better to know as much as you can so you can get far ahead by yourself. You sound young, just learn stuff.

Q: How many people will a team need to consist of to make a game like this? A: No idea what the scale is. It is always good to plan all your levels on paper and you can determine how many models you need for the game. Art takes time.

Q: Also, what is a sillhouette of what a level designer really does? A: You make maps. Draw them on paper, figure out player paths, execute this event when this happens. Place walls and static objects, spawn points etc.


I might be able to play music, as I have a keyboard, but I have to learn how to record with it on the computer.[/quote]
Yea you sound really young and inexperienced. Sound has no functionality for a game that's in such an early phase. Making music is not going to make a game is what I mean.

I have had so many of my own person projects that I ended up stopping either due to time or just losing motivation towards what the game was and how it felt. Don't think your design is going to just come out in a day and be like "man this game is sweet". Your almost 100% going to give up on this project and move to the next, so just learn stuff for now. For example as I suggested UDK or something (i'm not really a designer), but you can make levels with it and theres a big community for support somewhere.

NBA2K, Madden, Maneater, Killing Floor, Sims

Q: Will people help me in the Help Wanted section? A: nothing. just look at how many posts there are. And again they all fail. For you it will 100% fail, because you have to take it in steps. Your goal right now needs to be knowledge, not actually making the game. Grab UDK and try making levels. Your only going to find amateur people for your team, it just doesn't work out good. I tried it once and its just better to know as much as you can so you can get far ahead by yourself. You sound young, just learn stuff.<BR itxtNodeId="1406"><BR itxtNodeId="1405">Q: How many people will a team need to consist of to make a game like this? A: No idea what the scale is. It is always good to plan all your levels on paper and you can determine how many models you need for the game. Art takes time.<BR itxtNodeId="1404"><BR itxtNodeId="1403">Q: Also, what is a sillhouette of what a level designer really does? A: You make maps. Draw them on paper, figure out player paths, execute this event when this happens. Place walls and static objects, spawn points etc.<BR itxtNodeId="1402"><BR itxtNodeId="1401">Yea you sound really young and inexperienced. Sound has no functionality for a game that's in such an early phase. Making music is not going to make a game is what I mean.<BR itxtNodeId="1397"><BR itxtNodeId="1396">I have had so many of my own person projects that I ended up stopping either due to time or just losing motivation towards what the game was and how it felt. Don't think your design is going to just come out in a day and be like "man this game is sweet". Your almost 100% going to give up on this project and move to the next, so just learn stuff for now. For example as I suggested UDK or something (i'm not really a designer), but you can make levels with it and theres a big community for support somewhere.[/quote]
Thanks for the encouraging letter.
Well, I'm thinking about the game in the long run. If it doesn't have any music or any sound, it won't be truly finished. So that's why I was thinking of making music. But thanks for calling me a child before you had any real knowledge about me. It's always best to make assumptions.
I'd like to thank you for the responses to the questions and the suggestions, as they're rather helpful, but assuming that I think my game is going to pop up in a day is a bit...well, ignorant, no offense. I never said I thought my game was going to come out in a day and I could play it and have fun. I'm not thinking of trying to make it just so I can play it. I understand that it's hard work.
Once again, I appreciate what you suggested and the answers you've given, and I'm not trying to offend you by saying that...well, that you don't know what you're talking about when you talk about me and how 'young and inexperienced' I am.

EDIT: Wow, tags keep showing up in everything I do...sorry about the tags in the quote, I guess the HTML break tags are still there or something? Anyway, sorry...I'm just going to leave it that way so I don't accidentally screw something up.

[twitter]Casey_Hardman[/twitter]

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