Gentlemen we may have our first iPad contender!

I don't know. I see no evidence that this device:

1. Does at least as well as the iPad for what the iPad does well (which is, I think, more a software problem than a hardware problem).
   
2. Does better than the iPad for what the iPad does poorly.
   

I don't think there's any contender to iPad simpy because iPad is iPad. iPad is not just about hardware, tablet size, and price -- which what a lot of people tend to use for comparison -- but also the App Store, the legion of apps behind the App Store, the entire experience of using iOS, and the whole fanaticism of Apple products.

It's like anyone who already own an iPad will switch to this. They won't. The people who would buy this are those who own older Android tablets or those who haven't had one.

If someone hacks it to run Linux (and it had another gig or three of ram ) that 13 incher would be a nice light-duty laptop replacement when combined with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. It would also be interesting if they release a version with Windows 8 instead of Android.

Yeah, right now if I get anything to replace my Galaxy 10.1 tablet it's more than likely going to be something Windows 8 based; Nokia have been making a little bit of noise about releasing a tablet which is basically a scaled up Lumia which could be pretty damned sweet.

Seems a bit pointless, going bigger for the sake of it is not better. I don't buy the 'watching movies on it in your living room' since that's what you 40 inch TV is for . At 13 inches its no longer practical as an ebook reader and I would wonder if its comfortable to use in your hands at all.

Its a weird move, as for what its worth I think there is a gap in the market. Forget notebooks and these new ultra books, the majority of people only need the power and features of a tablet type device as long as it comes with a larger screen and an attached keyboard. I know because i've asked them, they complain that notebooks are too small and fiddly to use, whilst a laptop and ultrabook are simply over-powered or over-featured (connectivity/peripherals), whilst tablets are missing some features and would need a dedicated/detachable keyboard and larger screen for working with say spreadsheets or writing documents.

I know it sounds like I'm advocating a laptop, but i'm not. The important differences are light-weight, minimal features in terms of connectivity (a USB port or 2, SD card, certainly no dvd-drive) a full size keyboard and a decent size screen. The keyboard would be detachable and act as a cover, the screen would be touch sensitive and it would have a simplified OS, such as seen on iOS and I presume Android. Of course like other tablets there would probably be a need for an actual fully featured computer in the household, which does have all the connectivity and devices.

Obviously this would not suit everyone, I very much doubt many people here would want to swap their laptop/ultrabook as they need the power and features, but were talking about people who barely scratch the surface of what a computer can do, its just word-processing, emails, surfing, social gaming to them.

Seems a bit pointless, going bigger for the sake of it is not better. I don't buy the 'watching movies on it in your living room' since that's what you 40 inch TV is for . At 13 inches its no longer practical as an ebook reader and I would wonder if its comfortable to use in your hands at all.

Its a weird move, as for what its worth I think there is a gap in the market. Forget notebooks and these new ultra books, the majority of people only need the power and features of a tablet type device as long as it comes with a larger screen and an attached keyboard. I know because i've asked them, they complain that notebooks are too small and fiddly to use, whilst a laptop and ultrabook are simply over-powered or over-featured (connectivity/peripherals), whilst tablets are missing some features and would need a dedicated/detachable keyboard and larger screen for working with say spreadsheets or writing documents.

I know it sounds like I'm advocating a laptop, but i'm not. The important differences are light-weight, minimal features in terms of connectivity (a USB port or 2, SD card, certainly no dvd-drive) a full size keyboard and a decent size screen. The keyboard would be detachable and act as a cover, the screen would be touch sensitive and it would have a simplified OS, such as seen on iOS and I presume Android. Of course like other tablets there would probably be a need for an actual fully featured computer in the household, which does have all the connectivity and devices.

Obviously this would not suit everyone, I very much doubt many people here would want to swap their laptop/ultrabook as they need the power and features, but were talking about people who barely scratch the surface of what a computer can do, its just word-processing, emails, surfing, social gaming to them.

Something like this maybe?

http://eee.asus.com/eeepad/transformer-infinity/features/

Keyboard is detachable and acts as a cover as well as an extra battery / charger. Excellent specs, great screen. On paper it's a very compelling option. Too bad Asus seriously sucks at marketing.

Anything that start off with whether something is a "contender" or not seems doomed to encourage a flame war debate ;)

So in 10" tablets, IOS is more popular - but are new versions of OS X are introduced with whether it could finally be a Windows contender? Do people ask whether a new version of the Iphone could finally be an Android contender? No - and indeed, the people buying Apple products are quite happy.

Similarly, the people already buying Android tablets/smartphones already see them as the products they like best. There is no one best device for everyone - everyone has different needs, preferences, priorities and opinions.

As far as I'm concerned, my Samsung Android smartphone (and my Nokia Symbian smartphone before that) are devices I'd much rather have. For larger devices, I prefer my Windows 10" Samsung netbook.

It's also a mistake to compare one single device to Apple. That's a biased comparison which just plays into Apple's hands, since they have a business model of only having a few models. With Android there's plenty of choice - as well as the one you list here, we've tablets/smartphones from the likes of Samsung and Amazon, all of which do just as well as anything from Apple. It won't be the case that one single model will outsell Apple's single model, because that's not how other companies work. Android will ultimately win due to the large range of choice. Companies like Nokia and Samsung doing well in phones do so with a large range of different models, and the same seems true for tablets. It's not that one single model is "better", but rather overall people buy more from those companies.


ETA - just to clarify, I'm not having a go at the OP, who presumably is enthusiastic about this new Andoid device. I'm just noting that it shouldn't always have to be "Apple vs token-Apple-contender" ;) (Something that the media love to do.)

I don't think there's any contender to iPad simpy because iPad is iPad. iPad is not just about hardware, tablet size, and price -- which what a lot of people tend to use for comparison -- but also the App Store, the legion of apps behind the App Store, the entire experience of using iOS, and the whole fanaticism of Apple products.

"Experience" - this reads like an Apple marketing press release ;)

Pure numbers of applications shouldn't be an issue, which is a poor measure. This argument never seems to bother Mac users when comparing to Windows - and indeed no one cared about this until Apple started making it a marketing point as they found it was a statistic they did well on, and the other platforms were foolish enough to take the bait and follow suit in comparing. As long as there is software to do all the things you want, that's all that matters. I also note that a large number of the Apple-only applications seem to be website wrappers. If one has a tablet computer, this shouldn't be necessary - I don't need a "gamedev app" to access this site on Windows.

Of course, for someone who wants to run IOS, there will be no contender, just as Apple will never have anything to contend with those wanting Android or Windows. I agree with you here - different people have different needs, and talking about "contenders" as if there should be one single winner is flawed. As I say above, different people have different opinions.

It's like anyone who already own an iPad will switch to this. They won't. The people who would buy this are those who own older Android tablets or those who haven't had one.[/quote]Though I don't think that everyone buying Ipads are people obsessed with Apple or people who only like IOS - I think it's wrong to say that no one ever switches platforms. (Anecdotally, I know loads of people switching from Iphones to Samsung Android phones - I know that's only an anecdote, but I'm not convinced that people never switch.) Apple had the advantage of an early lead (although the first Android tablets actually predate the Ipad), and more importantly vast amounts of media hype and advertising (that started before it was even announced, let alone released), as well as availability in shops (loads of shops round here sell Ipads, and nothing Android). Those are important factors than companies need to change to get larger sales. Whilst Archos were early leaders in tablets, unfortunately the way the world seems to work in marketing is that it's going to take well known companies like Samsung to raise attention.

OOI, what has Apple's market share in tablets been - has it been increasing or decreasing since 2010?

To be honest, I think the biggest competition for Android tablets is not Apple, but Android smartphones. I already have a Samsung Android tablet - it's my 4.6" smartphone. For larger tablets, I'm actually more interested in Windows 8 x86 tablets, to get something with more functionality than a phone OS (though I'd still like a physical keyboard, like my netbook, so I'm hoping we'll still see various "convertibles" like ASUS are doing with their Transformer) (and I say x86 not because I dislike ARM, but because reports suggest that the ARM Windows 8 will be a cut down OS, and more locked down similar to phone OSs like Windows Phone). (On that note, I'm depressed that netbooks seem to have not progressed in technology at all, despite new models released - why can Samsung give me a higher resolution in my phone than my 10" netbook? And it won't be long before phones have more RAM, if netbooks continue to stick to the 1GB, which Samsung smartphones already equal...)

@noisecrime: I think I see what you are saying, though I'm curious to know what specifically you refer to. I mean, if the worse you can say about something is that it's overpowered, I'm not sure that's a problem

But yes, I see the point about something that is both larger screen and light weight. On a similar note, I'm getting a 17" laptop soon, and whilst I do want something high power, I think it's a shame that I can't simply not have the DVD drive (as one might as well use an external these days). But there are some of the ultra-portables/Ultrabooks that come in at 13" I believe, and are still very light - what sort of screen size do the people you refer to want?

Or do you mean power more in the sense of wanting a simple dumbed down OS? Yes it would be interesting to see Android running on larget computers - there are Android netbooks (including touchscreen and tablet-convertibles), but I don't know if anyone's done anything larger than 10" netbook size yet. Windows 8 may well change things too here, with the ability to hide the traditional UI and just show the full screen touch-screen applications.

I think Chromebooks were meant to offer this too - simple OS, and these do offer slightly larger screen sizes (11"-12" - though again, that may not be as large as you mean).

1) Tablets are not a hard or even important problem
2) Tables are used for media consumption, such as video or books

Does this thing come with iTunes? With all the music and movies you've already purchased?
Does it come with Amazon's book library? With all you can read free deals?
Does it play iPhone games? Since they get everything first and guaranteed to worth silk-smooth?

If not, it doesn't matter and is not a contender to anything.

Hardware simply doesn't exist for users of tablets, nor does the OS. Never did, never will. it has vanished into the mists of magic.

1) Tablets are not a hard or even important problem
2) Tables are used for media consumption, such as video or books

Does this thing come with iTunes? With all the music and movies you've already purchased?
Does it come with Amazon's book library? With all you can read free deals?
Does it play iPhone games? Since they get everything first and guaranteed to worth silk-smooth?

If not, it doesn't matter and is not a contender to anything.

Now you're just framing the debate in a biased way so that nothing can ever beat Apple.

As I say above - of course people who want to run IOS (because of the games, whatever) won't be interested in this. You are evidently one of those people.

But not everyone is like that. The fact that Android outsells IOS on smartphones (and even Symbian outsold IOS on phones during its lifetime) is evidence of that. Indeed, most people use computers for media and Internet and games rather than creating content, but Windows is still doing fine.

One could just as well change the argument around and say an Ipad or Iphone is not a contender to anything Android, because it doesn't have, e.g., Google Maps with free satnav (or whatever else) (I consider free satnav as standard to be a killer app, and have enjoyed using on both Nokia and Android).

There are other ways to play music than Itunes (any many of us prefer the other ways). For Amazon, the Kindle Fire presumably is the best supported here - and Amazon does have an Android app. No it can't run Iphone games, just as an Ipad can't run Android games. It is indeed depressing that Iphone still gets catered for first and foremost in apps, despite it never having the largest market share, but there's still more than enough games to choose from - Google Play is flooded with apps. (With the dominance of Android, it may well be that the situation in app support reverses sooner or later - will you change your opinion then, and switch to Android?)

Now yes, you'll probably reply and argue what's so wonderful about Itunes and Iphone games and so on, but that's missing the point - nothing you say will change my mind. My point is that many people have different opinions about what is best, or why they want to buy something, and not everyone has the same view as you. It is wrong to say that an Android device has no chance because it can't run Iphone games, and the overwhelming success of Android smartphones (and Symbian before that) has already shown this. There is room for more than one platform in a market - just as people still happily buy OS X machines, despite most people running Windows, for example.

Now you're just framing the debate in a biased way so that nothing can ever beat Apple[/quote]

Fastest rising tablet? Kindle Fire.

It's as much Android as iOS is Unix.

We have an Asus Transformer Prime at work, for development and testing. I like it a little better than the iPad 2 I have at home. The screen is brighter and just as crisp, the attachable keyboard/touchpad is pretty amazing (and actually extends the already excellent battery life), build quality is awesome, and most importantly it integrates very tightly with my Googlified life. Gmail, Google calendar, Google Drive, etc.

Of course, the new iPad (featuring ludicrous resolution) is pretty sweet, but my next tablet purchase will probably be some successor to the Transformer Prime.

Now you're just framing the debate in a biased way so that nothing can ever beat [X].

You... haven't met Antheus, have you?

Yeah, right now if I get anything to replace my Galaxy 10.1 tablet it's more than likely going to be something Windows 8 based; Nokia have been making a little bit of noise about releasing a tablet which is basically a scaled up Lumia which could be pretty damned sweet.

I'm in a similar boat.

I really like the idea of windows 8 slates with removable docks that have the added features of standard laptops (more ports, more battery, dvd drive, keyboard/touchpad, etc.). For example the eeeSlate (not eeePad) originally had a similar dock to the transformer, but was scrapped for a bluetooth keyboard. Because windows 8 seems more geared toward tablets and sounds like it will have a huge amount of manufacturers I think the largest competition for iPad will come from there.

Having a single device that covers tablet/laptop/desktop replacement is where the real competition will be imo.

You... haven't met Antheus, have you?

You... do realize I don't have Apple mobiles...

I'll be likely "forced" to move to Windows Phone. The reason is quite simple: offline maps by Nokia. The only usable maps that don't require foreign roaming when trying to look things up, making it possible to, say, watch your trip 24/7, even while on airplane and such. Not exactly a fan, but it's the only viable choice. Unless I want to pay for some overpriced third-party maps, all of which are of vastly inferior quality. Of course, platform might flop, but who knows...

Both iOS and Android to me are completely useless due to such extensive reliance on online data.


But what I need or want is irrelevant, when it comes to mobile markets it's the perception of the consumer and technical specs simply don't come into play.

Which is why I replaced the original "Apple" with "[X]" in the quote.

I know you have no love lost for Apple. I was just joking that you're known in these parts for have strong opinions, often expressed in a polarizing fashion.

Just a joke, nothing wrong with that.

"Experience" - this reads like an Apple marketing press release ;)

Ahaha. Having been reading so many sales and products materials, I've got all my corporate jargons updated.

Though I don't think that everyone buying Ipads are people obsessed with Apple or people who only like IOS - I think it's wrong to say that no one ever switches platforms. (Anecdotally, I know loads of people switching from Iphones to Samsung Android phones - I know that's only an anecdote, but I'm not convinced that people never switch.)[/quote]

People who are already Apple fanboys won't switch. There are also the opposing side who swear by their grandmother's grave to never use an Apple product. We don't have to talk about them either. There are also people who don't really care much about what they use as long as it gets the job done. They may or may not be a tech savvy people. These people in the middle are the ones who are more likely to switch. But, if they already owned an iPad, not due to their fanaticism but just because iPad was the first and has greater market presence, it's unlikely for them to switch to an Android tablet such as this one for these reasons:

1. They really have to be looking for a new tablet to notice this new tablet.
2. iPad has to be terribly defective for them to switch/buy a new tablet. Battery failure/exploded, viruses, lost documents, crashes, slow. iPads don't have these yet.
3. Everybody has to rave about this new tablet (just how people raved about iPhone) for them to notice. In order for this tablet to garner as much publicity, it has to be marketed properly AND it has to be much better than the iPad, not just hardware but software and also services.

Unless all these three happens, no product can steal the market share from iPad, with the exception of Price. If any of these companies actually want to steal market share, they really have to dare to take a loss. Offer tablets really cheap for $100, like HP did when selling out their webOS, with the same (or close to) capability of the iPad. I believe HP webOS sold out in 2 days, and from what I heard from the people who was lucky enough to snatch this good deal, they have no complain about it (and it was good enough for typical users). HP webOS was the tablet that I was actually considering buying. It doesn't have all the apps, but you can play music, browse the web, and everything else, and it's darned cheap.

As has already been said. There is a certain percentage of the market who will always buy Apple. There's a certain percentage of people who will never buy Apple. Then there's those in the middle who will buy either.

I was impressed with the ease of use of the Apple products, but after having an Android phone for a few weeks, I could never purchase an iPad or iPhone. There is so much functionality that is missing on the iPhone/iPad that I would be pissed at feeling trapped in iOS. I think Apple will always have a solid base of customers, but I can't see them being the market leader for more than a few years. I've yet to run into a problem with the Android store. I think in terms of volume iTunes has more apps, but when I go to search for a specific app in the Google Marketplace, I always find a variety of hits. I wasn't expecting this, and I think it will only improve over time.

The phrase I heard which I fully support about Android is, "If you want to change something about your Android, there's an app for it somewhere."

I could talk all day about the functionality I don't get on my wife's iPhone, stuff like bitTorrent, free tethering, ftp to servers, but I would be lying if I didn't say the biggest feature that makes my toes curl about my new phone is "Kid Mode." I tap Kid Mode, hand my phone to my child, and I know they can't delete my apps, call my business contacts, screw with my settings, or buy crap on the internet. That in itself makes me a loyal Android user. Considering iPad's were the #1 requested christmas gift for kids last year, I don't understand how they could not enable that feature.

1. They really have to be looking for a new tablet to notice this new tablet.
2. iPad has to be terribly defective for them to switch/buy a new tablet. Battery failure/exploded, viruses, lost documents, crashes, slow. iPads don't have these yet.
3. Everybody has to rave about this new tablet (just how people raved about iPhone) for them to notice. In order for this tablet to garner as much publicity, it has to be marketed properly AND it has to be much better than the iPad, not just hardware but software and also services.

You miss possibly the largest factor: existing app buy-in. I'm in the hole for a good $300-400 of apps (possibly much more) since I first bought the iPhone 3G and the iPad 1 - and every week, I become further and further bought in to the Apple eco system. To switch to another provider, it would have to worth at least $400 in added value just to justify leaving behind my apps.

Considering iPad's were the #1 requested christmas gift for kids last year, I don't understand how they could not enable that feature.

When was the last time you saw Apple push a feature that they can't prominently feature in all their press releases? Older Macs had this (in the form of 'Simple Finder'), but Apple continues a trend of abandoning any and all UI customisations that might fragment the user experience.