Thanks Game Dev

I would describe C# as a managed programming language that has C like syntax and the only thing in common with Java or C++ is the syntax and even then things arent 100% the same. Same family different personality I guess, although I would say C# is a lot more like Java than C++

C# is it's own language... I wouldn't say it's an exact combination of anything because the libraries and many components such as generics are quite different. It came about out of the Sun-Microsoft fiasco many years back over the language known as J++ or something like that. They hired the guy from Borland/Inprise who created Delphi to construct a new language similar to Java with the benefits of Delphi (some people consider the VCL a precursor to the FCL). So C# is really, if anything, a Java/Delphi hybrid he he he. C# was dubbed the Java-Killer for a long time but it didn't really kill Java; you could say it killed Delphi though.

Hi,

If I may ask: Isn't C# particulary good for making tools, even object oriented tools? I have read this several times in different websites over the last couple years or so. Is this a myth or a reality?


3Ddreamer

If I may ask: Isn't C# particulary good for making tools, even object oriented tools? I have read this several times in different websites over the last couple years or so. Is this a myth or a reality?

IMO its a myth.
C# can be used to make tools, but so can other languages. Is C# better, depends on lots of things, but the answer is probably no, its just different.
C# and VB both have full access to the .NET libraries so they should be fairly interchangable. C++ can also access all of .NET just using a different mechanisum.
C# is probably easier to learn, but once you have learnt it the other languages will be easy to pick up.

If I may ask: Isn't C# particulary good for making tools? I have read this several times in different websites over the last couple years or so. Is this a myth or a reality?

Yes, C# has a reputation for being good for tools-dev within the games industry.

If you wanted to make Windows GUIs, the Microsoft solution used to be to use C++ with MFC, but C#.NET has since blown C++/MFC away for productivity. Visual studio comes with a good WYSIWYG GUI editor, and C#.NET has a huge standard library of tools, and it's popular enough that searching for "how do I [font=courier new,courier,monospace]x[/font] in C#" almost always brings up a StackExchange thread telling you how.

N.B. it's not the only choice for tools-dev, e.g. you can still use C++ and MFC, or C++ and Qt, or Python and WxWidgets (the list of options is endless...), but I'd personally recommend C# for this task over C++.
On my personal project, and at my last two jobs, we've used C# to make the game's tool-chain, and C++ to make the game-engine runtimes.

I've gotten the impression that C is non-object-oriented, C++ is object-oriented and C# is object-managing (even more top-down than OOPs), whereas Java is merely inspired from C and C++ to create an easier to learn and use language that uses basic programming with simplified object-orientation. Is this true?

In either case, afaik most great programmers won't learn just a single language. A great programmer is fluid in several languages.


(Edited for clarity)

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1344587667' post='4968011']If I may ask: Isn't C# particulary good for making tools? I have read this several times in different websites over the last couple years or so. Is this a myth or a reality?

Yes, C# has a reputation for being good for tools-dev within the games industry.

If you wanted to make Windows GUIs, the Microsoft solution used to be to use C++ with MFC, but C#.NET has since blown C++/MFC away for productivity. Visual studio comes with a good WYSIWYG GUI editor, and C#.NET has a huge standard library of tools, and it's popular enough that searching for "how do I [font=courier new,courier,monospace]x[/font] in C#" almost always brings up a StackExchange thread telling you how.

N.B. it's not the only choice for tools-dev, e.g. you can still use C++ and MFC, or C++ and Qt, or Python and WxWidgets (the list of options is endless...), but I'd personally recommend C# for this task over C++.
On my personal project, and at my last two jobs, we've used C# to make the game's tool-chain, and C++ to make the game-engine runtimes.
[/quote]

I dont think it's just a reputation, C# *is* good at making tools, for a number of reasons.

First off, WPF or WinForms is about 1000x easier to use than MFC.
Second, C# is a much better programmer productivity language than C++
Third, supporting libraries in the .NET framework make certain tasks ( database access, xml parsing, etc... ) by far easier

and...

Fourth and perhaps most of all, C# pInvoke abilities make it rather easy to interface C# with native code, making embedding your C++ rendering engine, or otherwise interfacing your code with your C# tooling a ton easier than with many other languages.



All of this is basically true of VB.net too, but VB.net is just C# in a fat suit, so that isn't exactly shocking.

Edit: Seriously, I got -1 for that? *confused*

Possibly because the formatting almost looks as if you've shown C# as being based on C++ which its not.

Possibly because the formatting almost looks as if you've shown C# as being based on C++ which its not.

Well, maybe. Whatever the reason, I decided to clarify my previous thread.

I've gotten the impression that C is non-object-oriented, C++ is object-oriented and C# is object-managing (even more top-down than OOPs), whereas Java is merely inspired from C and C++ to create an easier to learn and use language that uses basic programming with simplified object-orientation. Is this true?

You can write OO code in C, but yes, it's not designed as an OOP language. C++ is also also a multi-paradigm, designed specifically for OOP, but also allowing for functional, imperative/procedural, meta-programming, etc...
Java was inspired by C++, but was designed to be easier to use (largely by obfuscating pointers, and providing a large standard library), much more focussed on OOP (with the silly demands that everything must be a class and functions are overridable by default) and to be much more portable, paired with a VM and byte-code format that supposedly lets you "write once, run anywhere".
C# was born out of Microsoft's Java implementation - they started modifying Java in breach of their licensing agreement, and thus were sued and barred from distributing Java. So their modified version of Java disappeared, and suddenly C# appeared, which is very much inspired by both Java and C++.
IMHO (i.e. very much personal feelings, not objective facts) C# started out as being a shoddy clone of Java, but the current version has far surpassed it.

Oh, I totally appreciate anyone having a preference for language.

Long term I am likely to settle into a groove of making most if not all tools in C# and implementing game engine in C++, but I might take the time to explore C# and Python if that might work. Limiting the number of languages learned by me to 3 or 4 would be good, I think. Any thoughts on these last two issues?

By the way, now that we have a nice variety of points of view here, is there any language for 3D game development which clearly is the leader if one were to only demand the best performance of the game? ... In other words, one language which is the best for making the highest performing game, all other things being equal if that were possible.


3Ddreamer

Machine code.

But with more seriousness, if you are going to make a triple-A game, C++ is most likely the way to go.
Until then, you should use other more sane languages.