I understand that these IDEs are tools. I also understand that a programmer is much more than that IDE, has to be able to solve problems, and all that. I'm not suggesting that an IDE will make someone better, though it might make the more productive.

But, When you get to really understanding what's going on in your application, which will be best? I always feel like VS is insulating me way too much, but I think that is just a perception. Eclipse "feels" more, I don't know, close to the language?

I am aware of Petzold's old 2005 article. I don't care much for it.

If I'm not programming in C++, C, or Assembly, do Eclipse and/or Visual Studio, keep me too insulated? Are they both about the same on this note?

By "better" I mean understand more about what's really going on under the hood. Then again, how far can that go? Do I have to write a compiler in C to feel like a real programmers? Mine my own ore to build the PC? Get silicone?

I don't think either really coddles you as much as you're saying unless you're using VSes xaml editor or something.

The most important thing they do is stop you from having to go look up the name of that function you made five weeks ago. I like VS personally. They're express editions are pretty slick. But that's in large part because it's what I work with.

If you are developing on Windows for Windows on any of Visual Studio's languages, then Visual Studio will be the better experience.

If you are developing Java applications then Eclipse will be the better experience.


Both of those scenarios offer great things. Both of those combinations offer ways to edit-and-continue when debugging, making changes to your program without stopping execution. Both of those combinations allow you to debug deeply into issues; either all the way down into the OS for VS/Windows, or all the way into the Java virtual machine with Java/Eclipse.

So they are about the same level of abstraction then? I won't be a better programmer with Eclipse (even on Windows)?

Neither will make you "better". Some people even think that IDE's hinder learning, and say that you should begin programming in a terminal. That is kind of overkill though. If you want to be a better programmer just make sure you understand what is happening in your code, and research it if you don't.

Neither will make you "better".

QFT. QFE.

By "better" I mean understand more about what's really going on under the hood. Then again, how far can that go? Do I have to write a compiler in C to feel like a real programmers? Mine my own ore to build the PC? Get silicone?

Do you really care? You don't need to be a great mechanic to be a great driver. You don't need to be a luthier to be a guitarist.

There's nothing wrong with learning low-level stuff and it certainly won't hurt, but it's not necessarily what you're looking to do.

I have never been a fan of Eclipse. It has raised so many false alarms on me, flagging errors in code, while nothing was really wrong. I feel that Eclipse has been really buggy to me.

Needless to say, I have spent hours figuring out these false alarms, while the fix was simply to reload Eclipse. That's not cool.

If you're looking to learn about WHY the code works, then you need to go into a much deeper dive into the inner workings of the OS and computer architectures. On windows, you're best bet is that you'll learn by something telling you how/why it works, unless you work at MS, then you'll -know- how/why it works. For Linux, there is stuff like LFS, which you'll be able to learn and know how/why your OS works.

Will learning that make you a better developer? Maybe. It all depends on what you're doing. Almost all of that is too much info for a business app developer. But if you're doing interesting things with your computer, or chasing some really nasty bug, then that info can become invaluable and a huge time saver.

Will your IDE guide you in any of that? Nope, its not its job.

My opinion ?

Eclipse doesn't force you to use Micro$oft exclusive libraries when compiling ... Visual Studio forces you to include include "Redistributable" along with your compiled work.

For me Eclipse is a much better work environment, than Visual Studio any way.