I would like to discuss research in "4X space empire builder". I don't have a specific question, just wanted to hear your thoughts.

What I dislike:

- Tech tree - I dislike that one. I was thinking why and concluded it's because messy connections and non intuitive. It makese sense for games in "real world", like civilization, because there you come with a prior knowledge "to make a tank I need to first invent wheel". With fictional/futuristic theme it makes no sense and feels strange. I think it's the worst possible choice for a space empire builder.

What I like:

- system in Beyond the Earth (the circular one - no clue how it's called) seems quite reasonable. It's fun since you can go for "primary" techs which unlock other techs, or go for "secondary" techs which don't unlock anything. Yet, the graphical representation of it... I don't know, not really bad but not that great either

- MOO2. I know, I'm boring here :) Yet still I like that old system quite a lot, the clear division to construction/energy/computers/etc made it very clear what you could get in that branch.

- Victoria 2. Great categories, yet a bit limiting in choices (but to tell the truth, as a player I didn't feel that way), also the "random inventions" are probably not fitting for space 4X

A tech tree is absolutely essential for research, it's how research works!

No one could possibly sit in a medieval workshop and build an Apple I, it's just impossible.

The same will always apply, there are always pre-requisit technologies for every technological advance. You can't have an electric motor with electricity.

Just because the science has moved on, does not make the fundamentals of scientific research disappear.

I always liked the way Alien Legacy Handled research.

You'd discover items or encounter events that would unlock research topics each topic had a cost in the six different science fields. Once you paid that cost it would take a period of time before you received the results of the research.

For example your settlers might have found unusual mushrooms growing near their new settlement. It cost 50 biology points, and 25 chemistry points to research the mushrooms and they result is you can now build advanced hydroponics chambers giving you more food per turn.

A rare crystal you find while exploring a moon might let you finally unlock phaser technology for your ships.

Discovering and researching Naqudria might allow you to produce hyper space engines small enough to fit on fighters.

It was good because your exploring and events shaped your research paths and technologies you unlocked.

One game I played I think it was War Of The worlds required the enemy to use technology against you before you can research things. For instance before you could research air filters your enemy had to start using bio weapons against you.

A tech tree is absolutely essential for research, it's how research works!

No one could possibly sit in a medieval workshop and build an Apple I, it's just impossible.

The same will always apply, there are always pre-requisit technologies for every technological advance. You can't have an electric motor with electricity.

You meant "research unlocks another research"? But it does not need to be a "tree", categories (MOO2) or "circles" (Beyond the Earth) serves the same purpose.

BTW, I have noticed the tech tree is rarely used in modern games, they move out of it (or mix it with other techniques like in StarDrive they have separate categotries each consisting of a small tech tree).

I always liked the way Alien Legacy Handled research.

Yeah, or in Reunion. But it was an adventure like system, not sure you could use it in a typical 4X... I mean it was fun to play the first time, but the replayability...

I'm currently developing a medieval/fantasy 4X game and I started asking the same questions as you did. I also felt I wanted something different than the bland tech tree that a lot of games offer. I came up with the following system:

I personally like technology to be based on the society/culture of an empire and thus indirectly by the choices the player has made. AKA buildings, armies, navies, battles, characters and policies all give a tech boost or malus in one of the six technologies. This way, players will need long-term planning to create a society in which their nation will excel in certain aspects. For example: a player notices he has little trade opportunities but he does have some naval or administration orientated players on the same island/continent. He could easily destroy their armies if he succeeds at gaining a military technology advancement. So he tries to buy enough stone to start building military buildings and tries to produce enough grain and iron to maintain his armies and starts training his armies by attacking neutral regions and he tweaks his government to be more focused on the military.

Now let's say this player has conquered a few cities and has gained access to some valuable resources but now he is suffering from his backwardness in trade and naval technology. This system allows him to switch some of his focus and start getting better in these fields. But this will require him quite some effort and time. In the meantime he will start to lose some of his military superiority.

Another thing I've added is that some aspects of a nation give it a little edge in all technologies, like having a free society or a centralized empire(in most cases this means small) or by investing a lot of money, effort and resources to build universities. I feel this system gives the players meaningful choices and a realistic and flexible system to work with. It hasn't been tested yet though, so who knows if it actually works.

I hope my explanation was clear and has given you some inspiration.

You'd discover items or encounter events that would unlock research topics each topic had a cost in the six different science fields. Once you paid that cost it would take a period of time before you received the results of the research.

I've always had an appeal for a system where there is a "cause for breakthroughs".

Such, a lot of empirical research can be ongoing on relatively mundane topics, but most of the breakthroughs origin from "odd discoveries" such as: we have a mutant, or stellar samples have been recovered, etc. Science gets boosted by discoveries as even the smallest thing can put a new perspective on everything we already have and we think of new tests to do on things we thought we knew etc.

So, finding traces of long gone civilizations should probably improve scientific progress by quite a margin.

Since your game is single player, and greatly asymmetrical, why not introduce such physical components on some of the planets? Finding ruins from older species and researching them might net you some advantage. Perhaps tying these unique researches to specific objects in the map so that some (many, if not all) techs can only be researched once their object has been found and researched. Would also prevent from having to deal with scientists constantly falling idle: instead, they're always assumed to be "working", but can research particular objects in hope that there's more to learn from them.

One implementation of such a system could be as follows:

Your team can only research one item at any given time. That item yields science pts (undisclosed amount). That amount reduces as technologies from this item are discovered, but science pts can still be used to progress towards more general technologies (improving engines, etc.)

Example:

"Broke Rune of Ku'lak"

Gives 100 science pts per turn investigated.

Unique tech 1 - 1000 pts: Morale +5% empire wide "The teachings of Ku'lak" (from here on, this artifact yield only 80 pts/turns)

Unique tech 2 - 3000 pts: Morale +10% empire wide "The covenant of Ku'lak" (from here on, this artifact yield only 60 pts/turns)

Unique tech 3 - 5000 pts: Morale + 15% empire wide, resist riots + 10% "Ku'lak's reign" (from here on, this artifact yield only 30 pts/turns)

Progress towards unlocking these techs is only accounted for while this item is selected.

Any points given by this artifact also translates to all other mundane techs being researched.

All mundane techs could be concurrent but have variable costs. Since progress towards each tech is measured by the same points, you can have some techs cost more or less depending on the order you want them unlocked, but some artifacts could mess up with that.

For example:

Engines I (1000 pts) Speed + 5%

Engines II (2000 pts) Speed + 10%

Warp-Drives (3000 pts) Fuel Cost - 10%

An artifact could have Warp-Drive as one of its "unique techs" meaning progress towards its realization might be twice as fast, meaning that having such an artifact in-hand would insure you can get Warp-Drives unlocked before Engines II

(focusing on techs would then become irrelevant)

Just a few random thoughts, of course.

AKA buildings, armies, navies, battles, characters and policies all give a tech boost or malus in one of the six technologies.

Only 6? I think it does not have the most interesting part of research system, which is investing in one of multiplie goodies. If there are less than like 30 techs to choose from you lost me as a player :) Of course it might be personal.

So, finding traces of long gone civilizations should probably improve scientific progress by quite a margin.

Since your game is single player, and greatly asymmetrical, why not introduce such physical components on some of the planets? Finding ruins from older species and researching them might net you some advantage.

Yes... That would be consistent with the rest of my design...

But I think I should start with the basics, a standard research system (things you can discover without any artifacts - pure science) and then add these alien techs. Also, I'm not a fan of making it primarily alien stuff, it could/should be significant but still at most 1/3 of total techs the player will discover (majority being science based).

I suppose such system can't be a tech tree (or at least not fully) if there are to be these alien techs (since these would mess with a tree greatly).

This also raises a question of "unlocking techs" (even assuming full encapsulation - alien techs being a separate tech tree/category - how these techs unlock each other? Linearly discovered maybe?)

Assuming not alien:

- Discovering a wormhole (possibly a stable one - sorry couldn't help the DS9 opportunity here!)

- Discovering a particular pulsar with a strange pattern that allows you to research certain energetic techs

- Witnessing a star's death or birth

- Discover a mineral not present on other worlds (helping you the origin of something commonplace on other worlds, such as water)

etc.

AKA buildings, armies, navies, battles, characters and policies all give a tech boost or malus in one of the six technologies.

Only 6? I think it does not have the most interesting part of research system, which is investing in one of multiplie goodies. If there are less than like 30 techs to choose from you lost me as a player Of course it might be personal.

There are 6 technologies or perhaps something like "directions" or "fields" would be a more appropriate name. They represent your empires' advancement by increasing in level. All of these technologies have multiple bonusses associated to them and unlock various things when they've reached certain levels. In this system 6 technologies, of which multiple could be worked on simultaneously, offers quite enough choice. Of course this approach is radically different from the usual tech tree and might not be what you are looking for but I thought it might give you some inspiration.

Assuming not alien:

- Discovering a wormhole (possibly a stable one - sorry couldn't help the DS9 opportunity here!)

- Discovering a particular pulsar with a strange pattern that allows you to research certain energetic techs

- Witnessing a star's death or birth

- Discover a mineral not present on other worlds (helping you the origin of something commonplace on other worlds, such as water)

etc.

It will definitely give some reason for players to start exploring and it's always fun for players to discover something important. This has given me some inspiration for adding something similar in my own game as well. Perhaps there could also be alien objects that give bonuses when they're in your possession, but that would be too dangerous to store in your cities. So that would give players a reason to play hide and seek. Meh, perhaps I'm taking this too far.