Why The 'Flag Mania' ?

Though the flag has changed the intent hasn't. The current Confederate flag is still a representation of the old Confederate ways: secession, slavery, segregation. That's my interpretation of the events anyway.

Pretty much what Alpha ProgDes said, except now it has been combined with someone being shown draped in it who also went on to shoot and kill 9 black people in a Church - maybe that event on its own wouldn't have caused all this but coming on the back of all the other events of late, well you can see why people might be a bit upset (he says, understating) about the continued use of it and the flying of it in various locations.

That flag was not the actual state flag of the 'Confederate States Of America' ... THIS was .

That was the national flag in the early years of the war, before the white flag was adopted. (The Stars And Bars looked too much like the US flag when no wind was blowing, and could lead to deadly confusion on the battlefield.)

By the end of the civil war, THIS was the official battle flag.[/quote]
No, that was the final national flag. The crossed bars at upper left was still the battle flag. The red bar was added across the end because the white flag looked too much like a flag of surrender, and could lead to deadly confusion on the battlefield.

The current Confederate flag is still a representation of the old Confederate ways: secession, slavery

Absolutely. The Confederacy was founded upon the southern states' "right" to continue the use of slavery.

[snip]
That was the national flag in the early years of the war, before the white flag was adopted. (The Stars And Bars looked too much like the US flag when no wind was blowing, and could lead to deadly confusion on the battlefield.)

[snip]
No, that was the final national flag. The crossed bars at upper left was still the battle flag. The red bar was added across the end because the white flag looked too much like a flag of surrender, and could lead to deadly confusion on the battlefield.

.

From my understanding of Confederate history...

This was the first state flag

This was the second state flag

This was the third state flag

....

This was the first battle flag

This was the second battle flag

This is what I find absurd, personally: http://www.businessinsider.com/civil-war-games-return-to-app-store-without-confederate-flag-2015-6

It feels very close to altering history to me.

This is what I find absurd, personally: http://www.businessinsider.com/civil-war-games-return-to-app-store-without-confederate-flag-2015-6

It feels very close to altering history to me.

Context doesn't matter, only peoples moral outrage.

Note: I'm not from the south, I don't live in the south, I don't approve of slavery, etc... etc...

Absolutely. The Confederacy was founded upon the southern states' "right" to continue the use of slavery.

Somewhat, but that's a bit of an oversimplification. While slavery was a major part of it, State vs Federal control was a major part and outlawing of slavery was more of a final straw for the South.

Many people who fought for the North held slaves, and many people who were anti-slavery went and fought for the South. On its own, slavery was a big issue (partly because a major part of the South's economy depended on slavery), but only led to war because of the southern states were already feeling marginalized by the Northern states' control of the federal government. It became a war of holding together the union of the states as one nation (modern USA) vs having a bunch of more independant states tied together economically (kinda like what I imagine the European Union might be like - but I don't know how the EU operates).

Slavery became the major issue of the civil war - but it wasn't the sole cause, and on its own very likely wouldn't have led to war.

If people rally around the confederate flag as a cultural symbol, I've no problem with that.

But when that culture includes racism, and people rally around the flag as a symbol of that racism, that's a problem - but still within their freedom of speech (removing the symbol won't remove the racism). I'm pro-Israel, but Americans still have the right of getting a swastika tattooed on them. If a swastika was added to a government building, however, I'd have a huge problem with that.

And that's my biggest issue with the confederate flag: when the state governments fly them on government ground. While they may or may not be making a cultural statement, it can easily be perceived as, and probably often is, a racial statement as well. It practically gives government approval of racism - a smile and a wink at racism.

This is what I find absurd, personally: http://www.businessinsider.com/civil-war-games-return-to-app-store-without-confederate-flag-2015-6

It feels very close to altering history to me.

Frankly, that's just stupid. A US civil war game is supposed to have the confederate flag.

And mind you, I have no real love or care for the confederate flag. But that's taking PC too far.

A US civil war game is supposed to have the confederate flag.

And mind you, I have no real love or care for the confederate flag. But that's taking PC too far.

Yes. Apple ticked off Taylor Swift 6 days ago, and ticked Tom Sloper off 2 days ago. What have they got against people whose initials are TS???

@Servant of the Lord

I pointed out the same things on a youtube video. I pointed out that history tells a slightly different story than what every one offended is arguing. History shows the Civil War was from 1861 - 1865, it also shows that Lincoln himself stated the war wasn't about slavery, rather it was about getting the south to rejoin the union. History shows Lincoln even stated he had no interest in freeing the slaves (which the south didn't believe and still broke away from the union). Lincoln didn't threaten to free slaves until September of 1862 (Emancipation Proclamation) by stating the slaves in the south would be freed if the Confederate states didn't rejoin the Union by January 1, 1863 (which the date came and went). On that day he freed all slaves in the south, but the slaves in the north weren't free yet. The union armies did allow African American troops after this point, but all wouldn't be free until the end of the war in 1865.

As for the flag, the flag originally started out with 13 stars to represent the 11 confederate states that seceded the union and the two that were confederate states, but didn't secede the union. Ultimately it looked too similar to the Union flag, upon which a General requested it changed to avoid friendly fire between his troops. As pointed out it has undergone several changes through the years, but personally I think pinning slavery on it is pushing it considering both sides had slavery. Same with segregation. The only valid connection in my view is it represents secession and nothing else.

Flags should generally be banned, they are an instrument of the vicious to bring death to the innocent.

Usually, it is less of an "issue" since most of the time, flags bring death to below average intelligence people that nobody cares about and whose families/community will readily accept it. Your son died as hero, be proud.

In this case, the flag is bringing death to a group of people who have a long history of exploitation, violence, and suppression, and therefore are very vocal and responding aggressively to the situation, which is the reason something must be done. Hence the hysteria.

In this case, the flag is bringing death to a group of people who have a long history of exploitation, violence, and suppression, and therefore are very vocal and responding aggressively to the situation, which is the reason something must be done. Hence the hysteria.

There is no need for a sweeping generalization like that. If you had say neo-nazis or white supremacists have a history of .... I would have agreed, but clumping everyone in the south as having a history of it just seems an unfair generalization.

In this case, the flag is bringing death to a group of people who have a long history of exploitation, violence, and suppression, and therefore are very vocal and responding aggressively to the situation, which is the reason something must be done. Hence the hysteria.

There is no need for a sweeping generalization like that. If you had say neo-nazis or white supremacists have a history of .... I would have agreed, but clumping everyone in the south as having a history of it just seems an unfair generalization.

I don't think he's talking about the south at all. He's referring to the victims of exploitation, violence, and suppression, not the perpetrators.

I don't think he's talking about the south at all. He's referring to the victims of exploitation, violence, and suppression, not the perpetrators

Yes in deed. I'm talking about the blacks. They're not taking it any longer (and can you blame them!).

If a black man gets shot by the police nowadays, there's a riot with a few thousands in the street the next day, even when it wasn't a racist thing (or at least, wasn't an obviously racist thing).

So, this is something that neither large companies nor the government can ignore. A redneck going to a church and shooting a couple of people while waving the Confederate flag just isn't acceptable, that's a public relations nightmare and a nightmare for sustaining civil order.

You could maybe do that 50 years ago, and possibly even get away with it, but those times are over.

I remember when I was in SC for student exchange, my redneck fellows and their 5-10 year older brothers/cousins/whatever openly made Klan references in presence of blacks. Sometimes, being the superior race, they forgot that there's things you definitively shouldn't say when you're two and the others are 8 or 10 (you shouldn't anyway, but in that case it's being outright dumb). Sometimes, after having gotten a good whacking for risking a too big lip, they went on a "spree" at night, I wouldn't want to know what they did. Probably, hopefully, just drinking beer, being loud, and throwing rocks at windows, but who knows. Might as well have done much worse.

What's bad about a flag is that the flag gives all the evil a cause, and people no longer realize that it's evil. It's a right, a duty.

Flags should generally be banned, they are an instrument of the vicious to bring death to the innocent.

Banning flags for representing an idea is as useless as burning books. It doesn't make the idea go away, and it certainly doesn't change the beliefs of the people who felt that way in the first place. If anything, it reinforces their belief that they are right and are being persecuted for it.

The underlying cause needs to be removed, not just the superficial trappings.

To illustrate why flags are so evil, let me draw your attention to the probably most well-known depiction of one particular well-known flag in Delacroix' famous painting:

a) What everybody looks at:

Liberty is a good thing, and she has nice breasts, too. Let's go to war. For God, for Freedom, for whatever.

b) What few people see:

Should a 12-year old boy wield pistols and risk getting killed in an armed conflict while stepping over dead bodies?

c) What even fewer people realize

Wait, did you say dead bodies? You mean, people die?

Those on the floor, what kind of liberty did they get?

A redneck going to a church and shooting a couple of people while waving the Confederate flag just isn't acceptable

You're forgetting that these kinds of people use flags etc as an Excuse. It's barely been 20 years since some kids went in to a school and shot it up, and because they happened to like Marilyn Manson there was a public outcry to ban all his music. Or, let's remember how because a few Muslims crashed planes into a tower block this was used to incite racial hatred against all Muslims and used as an excuse to declare war on a whole country.

It's just history repeating itself if you ask me, people use culture as an excuse to commit violence and others use that as an excuse to try and suppress that culture.

Sure the flag was used to represent open rebellion but that's history and history should not be rewritten or forgotten lest we be doomed to repeat it. You don't see them renaming the cavalier king Charles dog breed here in the UK because of its relation to the English civil war... And we probably wouldn't even if someone went and shot some people wearing a cavalier wig.

It's all just overreaction and a bit stupid if you ask me...

It's all just overreaction and a bit stupid if you ask me...

I wouldn't have said it was 'stupid', nor really an 'over reaction', at least not when it comes to it being used in official capacities such as being flown outside government buildings.

While the civil war might not have been completely about slavery the flag itself is still a symbol of oppression and racism to many and that is a lot more 'raw' in the USA than it might be say in the UK (where we have race and colour issues but not to the same extent), it is after all still less 50 years since Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated.

Now the removal of games and other things where it has historical context, that I'm of course against because it solves nothing other than to try and white wash history and pretend something was never there - in some respects I have the same trouble with Germany and the Nazi flag for that reason (and Nazi symbol itself being a corruption of another symbol already in use).

It's all just overreaction and a bit stupid if you ask me...

I wouldn't have said it was 'stupid', nor really an 'over reaction', at least not when it comes to it being used in official capacities such as being flown outside government buildings.While the civil war might not have been completely about slavery the flag itself is still a symbol of oppression and racism to many.....

...and Nazi symbol itself being a corruption of another symbol already in use).

This.
You can dance around the reasons for the civil war, but fundamentally, the confederate flag just screams racism to most people. Maybe it's a shame that those poor southern states are being maligned (although I really don't believe that for a second), but that's the reality we live in.

The same way you can't expect people to be ok with you flying a swastika and claiming it's a Buddhist symbol or something. That may have been true once, but the swastika today represents an abhorrent ideology and so does the confederate flag.
There is no way it should be flying above government buildings.